Regarding the vBHosting Hack

[hypedave]

Originally Posted by SpeedStreet

I have a hammer in my garage. That hammer was purchased from Home Depot with the implied agreement that I would use it to hammer things. If I use it to prop open a door, have I violated the terms of that agreement?

Furthermore, that hammer can do alot of great things. IMAGINE IT! I could build a house with that hammer! I could make a birds house for sick little birds...I might even use it to hang a picture next to my computer! But then again, I could also use it to build a shell casing for a weapon of mass desctruction. I could use it to bludgeon the head of a person I don't like anymore. I could use it to destroy my house, instead of improve upon it.

The point here is that damn near everything in this world can be used for good or evil. What gives any organization the right to tell us how to use the product we purchase from them? Banning a hack like this would be like the US Government saying that there is a mandatory 5 day waiting period on aluminum tubing because they *might* be used in the process of enriching uranium.

I understand that Jelsoft is interested in protecting their product, but there is a fine line between protectionism and isolationism...

Man, I couldn't have said that any better, lol.

[Chris|vB]

It looks so good.

[Zachery]

Originally Posted by SpeedStreet

I have a hammer in my garage. That hammer was purchased from Home Depot with the implied agreement that I would use it to hammer things. If I use it to prop open a door, have I violated the terms of that agreement?

Furthermore, that hammer can do alot of great things. IMAGINE IT! I could build a house with that hammer! I could make a birds house for sick little birds...I might even use it to hang a picture next to my computer! But then again, I could also use it to build a shell casing for a weapon of mass desctruction. I could use it to bludgeon the head of a person I don't like anymore. I could use it to destroy my house, instead of improve upon it.

The point here is that damn near everything in this world can be used for good or evil. What gives any organization the right to tell us how to use the product we purchase from them? Banning a hack like this would be like the US Government saying that there is a mandatory 5 day waiting period on aluminum tubing because they *might* be used in the process of enriching uranium.

I understand that Jelsoft is interested in protecting their product, but there is a fine line between protectionism and isolationism...

Just a note, Jelsoft already does prohibit one hack, and no one has ever had a problem with it before.


Also try buying a new laptop online

They are classifed as a possible highly dangerous weapon

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by Zachery

Just a note, Jelsoft already does prohibit one hack, and no one has ever had a problem with it before.

not true, theirs quite a few people with a problem about the lockdown hack as theirs quite a lot of very legitimate and responsible uses for it.

[Zachery]

Originally Posted by sabret00the

not true, theirs quite a few people with a problem about the lockdown hack as theirs quite a lot of very legitimate and responsible uses for it.

Most people accepct it, for the fact that it can be used and most oftenly is used for this reason.

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by Zachery

Most people accepct it, for the fact that it can be used and most oftenly is used for this reason.

i accept theirs no changing jelsofts mind, i couldn't be bothered about whether they're right or wrong, maybe one day when i wanna use the hack till then though but none the less theirs a different between

Originally Posted by Zachery

no one has ever had a problem with it before.

and

Originally Posted by Zachery

Most people accepct it

i mean even some of the site members have stated theirs legit uses for the hack. i personally would be interested in the effect it would have on debate forums, would people be less inclinded to go with the dominant flow? would it make debates more interesting? would it kill off debates completely? etc, etc, but that's all off topic :nervous:

[Thanatos]

I wonder if that is an accurate statement that 'most people accept it'

or if it is just they are pretty much forced into silence about it here.

I know I don't accept it (but neither do I need it or use it either). This is just another example of strongarm tactics being selectively applied to something because it is simply possible to abuse it or because it is viewed as unpopular by TPTB (the powers that be).

[SpeedStreet]

Originally Posted by Zachery

Most people accepct it, for the fact that it can be used and most oftenly is used for this reason.

You're missing the point.

My point was that almost anything can be considered to have a negative aspect depending on the viewpoint. To sit her and say that one modification over another has a more nefarious use puts Jelsoft in the realm of governing the content that people provide on their purchased product.

Those who run vBulletin.org reserve the right to refuse the publishing of a hack at any time, because you are providing a service to the public. However, saying a hack violates a license agreement is a different thing entirely, and Jelsoft can be taken to court for this. They are providing a good with a limited contract. They are not providing a service in which they can govern terms of usage.

As for the lockdown hack, which I was carefully trying to avoid, this is an instance in which Jelsoft has danced on the line of right and wrong. To my knowledge, you can install the lockdown hack, but you cannot publish that hack here or discuss it. This hack does have many good uses (like my hammer), but because Jelsoft has decided to focus on the negative, they have chosen to ban it in every way that they could.

After seeing twelve pages of rebuttals to Wayne's response...I would urge Jelsoft to reconsider their "review" of this hack...It looks like it could be a deadly corner they are backing themselves into. The last thin you want is your embeded constituency lashing out on all of those forums throughout the Internet where people ask, "which forum software should I buy?"

[CMerritt]

Are there any changes that could be made to the hack to make it more palatable for Jelsoft?

For example, what if only existing moderators had access to add/modify subforums? That would require the admin to manage his/her moderating staff and would take out an element of the moderation.

I think the majority agrees that the elements of this hack that allow mods to modify their subforums is extremely valuable. So, is it possible to modify the hack to include those options, or is Jelsoft against the entire idea?

-Chad

[SpeedStreet]

I'd also like to thank all of you that have shown support for my responses in this thread. It's good to know that people are actualyl reading what I type.

My entire life (and even the company I am a part of that uses our vBulletin installation) is dedicated to helping others. When I see an instance of a stifled growth or oppression of an opinion, it tends to kick my afterburners on.

I want all of you to know that if we keep this discussion civil, and present facts over feelings, that we can hopefully win this battle yet. I think that for what its worth, Jelsoft is not some big company governed by cold-hearted people, and that they look at situations like this objectively.

For every 1 nefarious use of a hack, there will be 20 of us that put it to good use, making vBulletin look *that* much better!