I think I've had enough

[Freesteyelz]

Nice post, Thanatos (#141).

[Erwin]

Administration and Jelsoft are aware of the issues raised here which are multiple and includes (as a summary):

1. Coders not feeling appreciated for the work they put into the site.
2. Non-coders feel that their questions are unanswered by staff or coders.
3. Members feel that vB.org staff do not listen to them and take them for granted.
4. Personality differences between certain members, and between certain staff and members (and dare I say, between staff from vB.org and vB.com)
5. Promised changes have not come to pass as yet.

I want to point out that the above things are recurrent things on this site, and I have to say, have always exist to a certain extent since I've been a member here. At different times, they get raised and a long thread like this comes about.

This is not to say these are not real problems that need to be dealt with. What I want to say is that so far people have listed problems, but solutions have been few and far between. I would like members to start coming up with possible solutions so that we can move forward.

[Kihon Kata]

Personally happened to me when I pmed each staff member about one that I felt needed addressing. Received back on reply from Boofo. Was helpful, but the rest fell on deaf ears :/

Originally Posted by Erwin

3. Members feel that vB.org staff do not listen to them

[Ohiosweetheart]

I don't think that coders should be permitted to release unsupported modifications/hacks.
*ducks and runs*

When a coder releases a hack and then doesn't support it, then there are bugs or simple questions that need answering and the author isn't around to do so, it leads to frustration and anger, and makes that hack author look bad. Yes sometimes it IS something as simple as the user not reading the instructions correctly......... sometimes it's not.

I, for one, appreciate every single coder here. And for every hack I've used and presently use, I've let the author know of my appreciation. As a forum owner and admin, I am learning, slowly, what to look for, what makes what work, how to switch and change things around, etc. But I am also intelligent enough to know that my talents are in other areas and to put it simply... a coder, I ain't.
As for the question of hacks and commercializing them, etc.... are they worth the money? You bet. Would I spent my money on a good hack? You bet........ IF I had the money to spend. Fact is, many of us forum owners spent everything we had for the vB license and simply cannot afford to pay for hacks as well. One of the major reasons I chose vB over IBP was the modifications available.
So if many of these coders go commercial, then my reason for staying with vB is gone, because I simply can't afford to pay for them, and I'm willing to bet that 50% of vB users are in my boat. And no, I'm not saying, necessarily, that we'd leave vB for IBP, I'm simply saying that we wouldn't be able to further modify our vB.

[0ptima]

Originally Posted by Erwin

Promised changes have not come to pass as yet.

Originally Posted by Erwin

I would like members to start coming up with possible solutions so that we can move forward.

My beef with Jelsoft is that they move way to slow with VB and it seems like the same thing is happening here with the hack DB. VB still has an edge over every other forum, but for how long? Jelsoft needs to speed up the development cycle and they need people to do this. There is great talent at VB.org, so why dont they start hiring some coders to help speed up the development on VB and on VB.org ?

Here is a great thread on VBs slow development cycle
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178350

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by 0ptima

My beef with Jelsoft is that they move way to slow with VB and it seems like the same thing is happening here with the hack DB. VB still has an edge over every other forum, but for how long? Jelsoft needs to speed up the development cycle and they need people to do this. There is great talent at VB.org, so why dont they start hiring some coders to help speed up the development on VB and on VB.org ?

Here is a great thread on VBs slow development cycle
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178350

You changed your post before I could quote it.

As for subscriptions, once you start doing that then the members have more reasons for being upset and demanding things and to me that takes all the fun and enjoyment out of putting a site up in the first place.

[0ptima]

Originally Posted by Boofo

You changed your post before I could quote it.

As for subscriptions, once you start doing that then the members have more reasons for being upset and demanding things and to me that takes all the fun and enjoyment out of putting a site up in the first place.

BOOFO, I posted a reply to Ohiosweetheart and the post was auto merged with my last one. I wanted to suggested to her that she uses VBs payment gateway to sell premium subscriptions.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Erwin

1. Coders not feeling appreciated for the work they put into the site.
2. Non-coders feel that their questions are unanswered by staff or coders.
3. Members feel that vB.org staff do not listen to them and take them for granted.
4. Personality differences between certain members, and between certain staff and members (and dare I say, between staff from vB.org and vB.com)
5. Promised changes have not come to pass as yet.


...... but solutions have been few and far between. I would like members to start coming up with possible solutions so that we can move forward.

I would also like Staff to come up with possible solutions

If only it were as easy as a few simple solutions, but a few things about each of the above.

1. A hard one, personally I have no requirement for financial reward unless the amounts are more than vb.org would ever be likely to pay - winning something like a HOTM would mean more to me than $50. How about features on well known coders - I see another forum does regular inteviews with staff members, but no one ever does it for coders - 15 minutes of fame can do wonders towards making a person feel appreciated.

2. I'm not really sure how you can do anything about that as far as coders go - but staff should make an effort to answer questions, and if they are site related questions or suggestions - not avoid them with vague non commital answers - the hacks database being a prime example, stop fobbing people off with "it's coming soon, people have lives" - explain it's delayed for three/whatever months and exactly why - people hate bullshit answers.

3. See part 2 above, lack of answers is what makes people think no one is listening. Staff should possibly think more before posting, and digging themselves into a hole they can't get out of (and yes, members as well). I also think the way staff are chosen should be looked at - there seems to be zero member involvement - the last two moderators just appeared out of the blue. No warning, no involvement, nothing. This immediate gets people thinking of "jobs for the boys" - xxxxxxx is now a mod because he's Brad's mate (that's just an example Brad ) Also - what are peoples specific roles on the site - no one really knows (for example, we suddenly get told in this thread that Amy is a 'member liason' - that's certainly news to me, and everyone else I would imagine - and again - no member involvement in the choice).

4. They will always happen, the difference is that Staff should try and be more professional about it and perhaps avoid the posts of people that they clash with (and I guess that would work for members as well).

5. As already covered in point 2 - keep people informed of delays and the reasons, members can be quite understanding when things are properly explained. Also, Brad did cover an idea in a post several pages back - basically more member involvement in projects for the site.

Well that's my random collection of thoughts - no doubt some will agree, others will disagree, but at least I tried. Sorry if it seems slightly biased towards what staff should do - but that's just the way it turned out - after all they are in the best position to make changes.

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by 0ptima

BOOFO, I posted a reply to Ohiosweetheart and the post was auto merged with my last one. I wanted to suggested to her that she uses VBs payment gateway to sell premium subscriptions.

Ouch! No need to scream my name.

[Tony G]

Regarding the hack DB, those were the only answers we could give because we didn't exactly know any more about its status of completion at times when members asked about it. But I do like your coder interview idea. Thank you for these suggestions Paul.