Suggestions: How to bring vBulletin.org back to what it was before...

[Brad]

I must say if some people spent less time in the site feedback forum going on about how bad this community is, and more time in the other forums helping users a lot of these problems would work themselves out.

I know you all want to make your points here, but I think you all may be getting a little caught up in these heated threads.

I've been here for years, I was a member in the Chen days as well. I even used a few of TECK's hacks when I ran vBulletin 2 and I always was thankful for them and tried to help other users of his hacks when I had the time.

The staff can not control what members do here at all times, they are not baby sitters. They can write a policy and follow it until they can't stand to stay awake anymore but that is not going to fix the under lying issues of this community.

We, as members, have to step up and set an example for everyone else. We are the ones that must educate the masses, we are the ones that must give a helping hand when someone asks for it. We are the ones that make this community what it is.

[TECK]

Originally Posted by Brad

We, as members, have to step up and set an example for everyone else...

Well Brad, you stepped down (unfortunatelly, because you are a great guy), instead of stepping up... did you do it because you did not liked also in what direction vB.org is going (like Stefan)?

[Revan]

Originally Posted by ubblite

I'm sorry if you're unable to comprehend my previous post, and this thread is meant for opinions of which I expressed mine and by flaming others because of your ignorance only makes you look bad.

Please point out which part of my post was ignorant. Because just stating I am ignorant without providing a valid counter-argument just makes you seem more and more like the person who's afraid of getting his free toys taken away from him when coders realise they don't have to put up with all the crap some users (thereby meaning downloaders) give them in their support threads and for nothing in return.

Originally Posted by ubblite

IMO, my post made sense in that when people shop for bulletin board software one of the things potential customers consider is the features the software offers, and vb.org with all the hacks available for VB looks very good to the buyer when comparing vbulletin to other BB software. However, *IF* many hacks start going the paid route, this can all change when considering the purchase of VB and you have to believe that some of the heads at VB realize this. I for one have no problem with people charging for certain hacks - they have every right to get compensated for their work if they choose, but make sure you also understand the negative impact it can have as well.

It only has a negative impact when new purchasers of vBulletin is not aware of the fact that the solution they are looking for exists.
What you are basically saying is that since we paid for Windows, we should get all Windows based software for free. I mean if I want a program that for instance securely erases my files, I should get a $300 software for free since I already paid the same for Windows. Certain software even costs MORE than Windows itself, oh my god this is such negative impact on Windows, we must all swap to Linux before it's too late!
Can you see the stupidity of that statement? It's exactly the same you are saying. Paid software does not have a negative impact as long as users know where it exists.
If vBorg allowed for a directory viewable by guests, they could come in here, search the free forums and then the paid hack directory when they didn't find what they were looking for.
You say you understand why coders want to make money, but you're not condoning it. That kind of hypocricy unnerves me. As Ive said time and time again, this ain't no communist society. Not everything comes for free with demand. Some things are worth paying for. Those that don't want to pay can either make their own version, or they can make do without until they want to pay for it.

[The Geek]

Originally Posted by brad

I must say if some people spent less time in the site feedback forum going on about how bad this community is, and more time in the other forums helping users a lot of these problems would work themselves out.

Very fair point and one Im guilty of as of late. Problem is, most of my free time where I can 'help' others is spent helping customers and coding. I really only have time to pop in and see whats happening every now and again. However I do think your point is very valid regardless of my excuse.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by TECK

Well Brad, you stepped down (unfortunatelly, because you are a great guy), instead of stepping up... did you do it because you did not liked also in what direction vB.org is going (like Stefan)?

My reasons are un-realated to this site and the recent going ons here. I simply have issues in my life that need to be taken care of at this time. I will stick around and pop in when I can, just because I am no longer an admin does not mean I will not be in the community trying to help people when I can.

[tgreer]

@amykhar: what words did I put in your mouth? My response was directly toward what you said. Also, what was off-topic? In a thread about making this place better, I think it's on-topic to point out your role/staff title is in direct conflict with your ideal vision of the site. I've already promised to reserve any more comments on the Coders Discussion for the town-hall thread, if and when it ever appears . I'm very curious if the issue can get an objective hearing, given your stance.

[Code Monkey]

The issues raised here have nothing to do with vBulletin.org. The changes you see are a reflection of the change in the status of PHP itself. All of these issues effect every single PHP oriented site that exists. Not just this one.

PHP is no longer a grass roots scripting language. It is now mainstream. It once attracted a defined group of tinkerer's and those that like to live on the cutting edge. It now attracts everyone. Deal with it. If you like that close knit feeling that used to exist here, at Sitepoint, or all the other places that are no longer as fun and helpful as they used to be, then you need to move on to the next big thing. Try Python or Ruby on Rails for that coding community feel. Otherwise, get used to the general populous and all that comes with it.

[rogersnm]

Originally Posted by TECK

Reeve, I know is a delicate matter... But those were the rules on the old times.
A hacker should never charge someone for a hack, especially when it was made using the vBulletin code techniques.
In other words, I look at the vBulletin code, learn from it and then I create a hack that will work with vB, based on the vBulletin functions... then I start charging. Where is the fairness in this?
Hey, the vBulletin should charge me money for using their code property or techniques, right?

i disagree completely. Many coders make free mods on this site and then jelsoft just come a long and pick up any mods they like and stuff it in the next version of vB without the users permission which is breaking the rules of this site. So if we want to realease paid hacks then we should seeing as jelsoft get paid for our work.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by rogersnm

i disagree completely. Many coders make free mods on this site and then jelsoft just come a long and pick up any mods they like and stuff it in the next version of vB without the users permission which is breaking the rules of this site. So if we want to realease paid hacks then we should seeing as jelsoft get paid for our work.

I would consider it an honor if one of my modifications made it into the core release. I also know many others share this feeling.

Some of the things you take for granted these days were hacks in the old days, a short list would include:

Avatars
Private messages
Super Moderators
Who's Online
Attachments in file system
Quick Reply
Returning to the last post of the thread after making a reply (we used to redirect the forum)
Who's online in threads
Soft delete aka the recycle bin
Adding more than 5 moderators per forum
Adding more custom profile fields (anyone remember hacking nearly every file to do that in ubb?)
Last thread title in the last post column on index.php

...I could go on and on..

Yes some of these things have been default in vBulletin from the start. But vBulletin grew out of ubb in a way, and in the old ubb days we hacked all of these things in (and a lot more).

The point I'm trying to make is Jelsoft is not ripping off hack authors here. They are adding things that their customers want, like they always did. If Jelsoft would have ignored the hacking community from day one, I doubt many of us would be using it today. They also don't just lift code, they code it themselves and often improve it in some way. That in no way breaks a rule on this site.

[Dean C]

Originally Posted by rogersnm

i disagree completely. Many coders make free mods on this site and then jelsoft just come a long and pick up any mods they like and stuff it in the next version of vB without the users permission which is breaking the rules of this site. So if we want to realease paid hacks then we should seeing as jelsoft get paid for our work.

This is absolute nonsense. Jelsoft doesn't take your code and put it in vBulletin, in fact if they did that they'd be obliged to pay you. This has only ever happened on one occasion.