Regarding the vBHosting Hack

[GameCrash]

For those sending me (and others) tons of emails and pms:

No, I will not give out the vBHosting zip file anywhere else than at vB.org and vB-Germany.com to prevent it to be used by pireated boards. This has always been a policy of my hack and will not be changed, at least not until this current problematic has been clarified.

For those running Beta 1 of the hack I will attach the security bugfix that has been part of Beta 2. Just upload it to your includes/ folder and overwrite the existing file.

[AlexanderT]

Question: If I had downloaded the vBH hack before it was deleted some time later by vB team members, installed it, and since then never came back to vB.org - how would I know that I was using an "illegal" hack? How could I be reliable for something that I downloaded from a vB-supported forum?

[LeeCHeSSS]

Originally Posted by AlexanderT

Question: If I had downloaded the vBH hack before it was deleted some time later by vB team members, installed it, and since then never came back to vB.org - how would I know that I was using an "illegal" hack? How could I be reliable for something that I downloaded from a vB-supported forum?

Sadly you have just negated that possibility

Anyway, according to current vB.org rules, the hack was to be removed regardless of this whole issue (as trafix already pointed out).

[GameCrash]

Originally Posted by LeeCHeSSS

Anyway, according to current vB.org rules, the hack was to be removed regardless of this whole issue (as trafix already pointed out).

I couldn't find where trafix posted something about this issue, however, if you mean what Zachery posted about the installer was, simply, no more true as beginning with Beta 2 the installer was part of the vBHosting zip file (which has been discussed with the vB.org staff and they stated this whould be enough to make the hack compatible to the rules).

[LeeCHeSSS]

Originally Posted by GameCrash

I couldn't find where trafix posted something about this issue, however, if you mean what Zachery posted about the installer was, simply, no more true as beginning with Beta 2 the installer was part of the vBHosting zip file (which has been discussed with the vB.org staff and they stated this whould be enough to make the hack compatible to the rules).

This just proves that the current vb.org staff lacks any ability to enforce their own rules consistently.

Anyway, I think your hack is a nice piece of work. It isn't breaking the *current* vBulletin license agreement - I expect Jelsoft will be releasing future releases of vB with a new agreement that will limit this kind of hacks though...

In your original thread you said that the HTL had missing features. Might I suggest that you contact Kura to work with him to create a combination of both installers, creating an even better end-result? I know Kura is willing, and he asked me to direct you to this link: http://everythingvb.com/showthread.php?t=39

With regards...,

[Morrus]

Originally Posted by Boofo

Drk, I understand what you are saying but it is the one or two bad apples that would use something like this for illegal purposes that they are concerned with.

Look, guys, people aren't helping by spreading this "making a profit is illegal" nonsense. If you want to make money off your vBulletin board, it is perfectly legal to do so - and so it should be.

The vBHosting license itself does require that anyone using the hack does not make a profit from it but that has nothing at all to do with Jelsoft, and nothing at all to do with this discussion. This discussion is purely about the legality of the hack according to Jelsoft's published licensing agreement - which is a factual, legal thing, and not something which Jelsoft get to "decide".

[GameCrash]

Originally Posted by LeeCHeSSS

This just proves that the current vb.org staff lacks any ability to enforce their own rules consistently.

I don't think so. The rule (as they told me) exists to make sure nobody has to download one hack just to install another one. Combining vBHosting and vBHMS to one hack simply lets you download one hack which contains an installer, not more and not less...

Anyway, I think your hack is a nice piece of work. It isn't breaking the *current* vBulletin license agreement - I expect Jelsoft will be releasing future releases of vB with a new agreement that will limit this kind of hacks though...

Yes, you may be right. However that rules are not here now and so there was no reason to delete the hack thread. It's that simple for me.

In your original thread you said that the HTL had missing features. Might I suggest that you contact Kura to work with him to create a combination of both installers, creating an even better end-result? I know Kura is willing, and he asked me to direct you to this link: http://everythingvb.com/showthread.php?t=39

With regards...,

Kura already contacted me. We'll see what happens to vBHosting and then we'll see if I have time for HTL

[SpeedStreet]

I think the point that needs to be clarified here is what this hack does versus what people think the possibilities of a violation are.

vbHosting simply adds additional subroutines to your forum. Without the automated part of the hack, this gives me, the Administrator, the ability to create a new subforum whilst automatically creating a new style for that subforum. Now, I can appoint an "admin" to the forum that can modify ONLY buttons and styles.

How is this hack not incredible?

Ok, now let's dive into the license agreement in question, thereby resolving this beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt:

By installing and using vBulletin on your server, you agree to the following terms and conditions. Such agreement is either on your own behalf or on behalf of any corporate entity which employs you or which you represent ('Corporate Licensee'). In this Agreement, 'you' includes both the reader and any Corporate Licensee and 'Jelsoft' means Jelsoft Enterprises Limited:

vBulletin licence grants you the right to run one instance (a single installation) of the Software on one web server and one web site for each licence purchased. Each licence may power one instance of the Software on one domain. For each installed instance of the Software, a separate licence is required.

In no manner of speaking does vBhosting recreate an additional software instance. The hack itself should be more aptly named "SuperSubForums"

The Software is licensed only to you. You may not rent, lease, sublicence, sell, assign, pledge, transfer or otherwise dispose of the Software in any form, on a temporary or permanent basis, without the prior written consent of Jelsoft.

As "The Software" has been determined to still be in the sole possesion of the Administrator of the existing site, and new "admins" do not have access to the source code (without additional renumerations from the aforementioned Administrator), this bullet point is also not subject to the issue at hand

If you have a valid licence, you may set up an additional test forum in order to test code, template and database modifications. To make this clear to us and our licence verification procedures, place it in a directory called 'testvb' and be sure to password protect it. It must not be accessible by the general public.
The licence is effective until terminated (Owner Licence)/The licence is effective for one year from the date you install the Software (Leased Licence). You may terminate it at any time by uninstalling the Software and destroying any copies in any form.
You undertake to;
:- ensure that, prior to use of the Software by your employees or agents, all such parties are notified of the terms of this Agreement; and
:- hold all data (including object and source codes), software listings and all other information relating to the Software confidential and not at any time, during the period of the licence or after its expiry, disclose the same whether directly or indirectly to any third party without Jelsoft's consent.
After the expiry of a licence, the Software must either be removed from the server, or another licence purchased.
All customers must submit the URL where they are using (or plan to use) each licence. The URL can be submitted via the vBulletin members area.
The Software source code may be altered (at your risk)
All vBulletin copyright notices within design templates must remain unchanged (and visible).
The Software may not be used for anything that would represent or is associated with an Intellectual Property violation, including, but not limited to, engaging in any activity that infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of others, including copyrights, trademarks, service marks, trade secrets, software piracy, and patents held by individuals, corporations, or other entities.
If any of the terms of this Agreement are violated, Jelsoft reserves the right to revoke the licence at any time.
Refunds will be given at the discretion of Jelsoft.

There isn't anything within the terms of this agreement that would hold a product such as vBhosting in violation.

For posterity purposes, I will post the rest of the agreement:

The software and the accompanying files are sold "As Is" and without warranties as to performance of merchantability or any other warrantied whether expressed or implied.

Jelsoft is not liable for the content of any message posted on a forum powered by the Software.

Jelsoft cannot be held responsible and accepts no liability for any failure in transmission by you and where for whatever reason your transmission is corrupted fails to arrive or arrives after an undue delay or is received in an unintelligible form.

You must assume the entire risk of using the program. ANY LIABILITY OF JELSOFT WILL BE LIMITED EXCLUSIVELY TO PRODUCT REPLACEMENT OR REFUND OF PURCHASE PRICE.

Except in respect of personal injury or death caused directly by the negligence of Jelsoft, in no event will Jelsoft be liable to you for any damages, including any lost profits, lost savings, loss of data or any indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of or inability to use such Software, even if Jelsoft has been advised of the possibility of such damages. Nothing in this Agreement limits liability for fraudulent misrepresentation.

Terms in this Agreement excluding or limiting liability in relation to breach of the terms implied by the "Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973 or the Sale of Goods Act 1979 do not apply when this Agreement is made with a consumer.

This licence gives you specific legal rights and the you may have other rights that vary from country to country. Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion of implied warranties, or certain kinds of limitations or exclusions of liability, so the above limitations and exclusions may not apply to you. Other jurisdictions allow limitations and exclusions subject to certain conditions. In such a case the above limitations and exclusions shall apply to the fullest extent permitted by the laws of such applicable jurisdictions. If any part of the above limitations or exclusions is held to be void of unenforceable, such part shall be deemed to be deleted from this agreement and the remainder of the limitation or exclusion shall continue in full force and effect. Any rights that you may have as a consumer (i.e. a purchaser for private as opposed to business, academic or government use) are not affected.

From time to time, Jelsoft may inspect your registration integrity. This will be done without collecting any information whatsoever about your server or your users. The only information verified will be your licence number and the domain on which the software is run. Should Jelsoft discover discrepancies in the software usage, be aware that you may lose your licence and may face legal actions for Software Piracy. Your information will not be shared with 3rd parties. Occasionally, it is necessary to record your IP address for security and performance monitoring.

Please be aware that we subcontract our anti-piracy measures to Legal Research Associates. They may contact you to clarify your license legality, and will use an email address @vbulletin.com , @lra.com or @nukepirates.com .

This Agreement constitutes the complete statement of the agreement between you and Jelsoft, and supercedes all representations, understandings or prior agreements between you and Jelsoft.

Jelsoft reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

This Agreement is governed by the laws of England and Wales.

Now, believe it or not, the second to last line, "Jelsoft reserves the right to modify these terms at any time." will not hold up in most United States Courts when it comes to contractual agreements. The only time an agreement can be altered in an instance when goods or services are bartered or purchased is when said agreement comes to the table again. In this instance, the license agreement can ONLY be altered if you have to make a payment on a lease or if you are purchasing an additional unit, and then only that unit is subject to the new agreement. This flaw (or feature) is known throughout the world as a "Grandfather clause" and is the source of many a copyrighter's nightmare.

I would continue my diatribe of contractual law and corporate ethics 101, but it is 5 am here and I have gotten very little done on my own board this evening. I hope this post has been somewhat enlightening.

[SpeedStreet]

Originally Posted by GameCrash

I don't think so. The rule (as they told me) exists to make sure nobody has to download one hack just to install another one. Combining vBHosting and vBHMS to one hack simply lets you download one hack which contains an installer, not more and not less...

I think that's actually a good rule...How long will it take you to whip up a text installer?

[LeeCHeSSS]

Originally Posted by GameCrash

I don't think so. The rule (as they told me) exists to make sure nobody has to download one hack just to install another one. Combining vBHosting and vBHMS to one hack simply lets you download one hack which contains an installer, not more and not less...

Excuse me for going offtopic in this thread again, but I just have to point out that this merely shows how the average vb.org user (mayhaps even staffmember???) does NOT understand the current rules - note that I could be the one confused; I'm as much an average user as you .

Anyway, what you say implies that hackers are now allowed to release HTL releases PROVIDED they include the HTL in their zip - which is ofcourse far from desireable; dozens of different HTL versions floating around everywhere. That is, where it not for the fact that each release should include a textfile with instructions - as the ever evasive rules dictate.

Let me stress that it is not my desire to point you wrong, but to show how horribly confusing and erratic the current vb.org staff governs this site.

Again with regards...,