Under Construction or UnSupported

[DawnsWebDesigns]

I think you've read enough posts around here to know I love you software/mod/theme creators. In fact I hate shopping yet when it comes to free software/mods/themes suddenly I'm like the biggest fan or something. I do realize this takes time. I do realize you're doing this for free. And I really do appreciate it.

This is just for a couple of people who forget that while they have a couple of mods &/or themes to keep an eye on some of us are trying to plug several of both into our site in a few days time. I simply don't have time to waste on something currently under construction or completely dead with no hope of being revived.

I just moved my site & upgraded. I've been shopping again. I've tried several mods to have them not work. I come back through here & read several pages of stuff & find lil edits I try to no avail. It's bad enough but when you install a software to go with the mod & have the mod not work it's ridiculous. I just wasted half the night on such a mod the other night. So I've already uninstalled not only the mod but also the software.

I think if a mod or theme is buggy & under construction it should be taken off display 'til it's fixed versus expecting people to read through pages of stuff & attempt supposed edits to no avail. And if creators know they don't want to update or support it anymore they should either move or request it be moved to the graveyard before bailing. I've come across a few that are graveyard material but haven't been moved there yet.

I'm not sure if you can download while looking at the titles of all the threads within a board...but you can mark them installed & uninstalled. If you don't let these people move their own stuff to the graveyard it would be cool if you could add "under construction" or "un-supported" there or to the titles & let these folks mark them should they become so.

I thought I'd suggest this because I actually know some html/css & have had almost 5 years experience installing softwares/themes/mods alone. I feel sorry for the newbies who don't even know html/css much less php/MySQL/etc.

Thank you.

[Roms]

I agree that it must be frustrating to add a modification one of the members have created, and not have it work correctly or even at all. I've been frustrated myself while making changes and additions to my site so I can completely empathize with you.

I can't really speak officially for the site, that's for the Administration to do but, I can tell you my thoughts on the matter. This site is a development site, so you are going to see a lot of modifications that aren't going to always work and some that might work great but effect another modification, and make that one not work correctly. Even when an official vBulletin developer creates modifications it sometimes takes a while to work out all the bugs. We have coders that range from novice all the way to years of expertise. Some coders are better at getting the bugs out, updating files, and creating a professional experience; while others you have to search threw 10 pages to see that a bug was found and a fix given... or not find a fix at all because they gave up on coding.

So, while I can honestly say I've been in the same boat you are in I don't think any set of rules of organization of the projects will really help greatly. That's kind of the nature of things on a development site...

Thanks

The suggestion really isn't something the Administration can handle, you're suggesting some sort of Modification etiquette that not all coders/designers will follow...I don't think it's possible (or fair) for the staff to enforce them.

Also, I want to go further on Roms point - even the most expert coders rely on testing by users who install their modifications...a single coder can only test so much given the countless amount of variables that are involved with using a modification:

Server details, vBulletin version, other modifications installed that may cause compatibility issues...etc...etc...

Finally, the user will always have to do research before installing a modification on their forum. Part of that means going through the thread and investigating if there are any lasting issues with the modification in question.

[glorify]

Don't install something until you've read thru the entire thread looking for issues. You may not want to jump in on something that is a brand new mod either if you aren't comfortable fixing issues that may arise and you are the first to stumble onto.

Finally, be advised. You may totally love a mod for vb version X, only to see it not updated for the next version. That just happens.

Follow those rules and you should be OK.

[DawnsWebDesigns]

I'm not suggesting playing tyrants. I'm just saying if this site's webmaster could add a couple more features to this site maybe people would use them? Eitherthe mod/theme creator or the people using their stuff.

Didn't you used to have a report this mod (or theme) link near the developers info? That's better then nothing.

I understand things posted here are beta but after a while people do report back bugs...if there are any. At this point...when you know something's wrong & you have to fix it for it to work at all properly...then it would be cool if people could simply mark their mod or theme as under construction or disabled. Forum etiquette requires we mark a thread as installed or un-installed...I'm simply asking people to return the favor. Or like I said at least give us a way to do it for them in case they have no time.

I just read one thread where the feature creator lost his vb license so he was bailing this place. There would be no more upgrades to his/her feature. There would be no support. A few people have posted of problems. And he/she hasn't come back so he/she was right...there's been no support. That's exactly the type of thread somebody needs to be able to report...the creators themselves or we using their stuff. Can they? I don't know cuz I've never submitted anything. Your webmaster added all those other links...what's one or two more?

Otherwise...are you guys calling me a coder? Awww how sweet. I'd drop a kissy smilie but I don't see any in the QR. But I consider developers & programmers coders. I consider myself a big cheating hag. The most I'm doing is copy/pasting really. But thank you for making me feel all special.

[Netunt]

If you have a problem with mods/styles not working, pay for them and then I'm sure you would get the support you need! I'll admit, I don't know a lot of code. I'm still learning and I'm releasing as I go. For this reason there will be bugs in my work as seen by people that have used my only released style.

I have removed my style and am awaiting for it to be deleted and my designer status removed. I'll give you a PM when I create the perfect style. My appologies for any problems I have caused you.

In fact, you could just take up a 3 year course in coding and create your own mods and themes!

[Lynne]

Originally Posted by DawnsWebDesigns

I just read one thread where the feature creator lost his vb license so he was bailing this place. There would be no more upgrades to his/her feature. There would be no support. A few people have posted of problems. And he/she hasn't come back so he/she was right...there's been no support. That's exactly the type of thread somebody needs to be able to report...the creators themselves or we using their stuff. Can they? I don't know cuz I've never submitted anything. Your webmaster added all those other links...what's one or two more?

I don't understand why you don't report this modification then. The Report this Post button is right there next to where it shows when the developer was last online. If we can then read the thread and see that the developer has bailed, but he hasn't bothered to mark his modification as Unsupported, I think we can go and do that for him (I'm pretty sure). Is that what you are talking about?

I had never done any php coding before getting vbulletin, but I have an analytic mind. I learned how to 'read' code and then started slowly learning to make changes and now even write my own modifications. I never leave a modification default now - I seem to always want to do some small tweaks to get it to fit just right on my site.

[Lynne]

Originally Posted by Netunt

I have removed my style and am awaiting for it to be deleted and my designer status removed. I'll give you a PM when I create the perfect style. My appologies for any problems I have caused you.

You need to actually Report it, or we don't know you want it removed.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by DawnsWebDesigns

This is just for a couple of people who forget that while they have a couple of mods &/or themes to keep an eye on some of us are trying to plug several of both into our site in a few days time. I simply don't have time to waste on something currently under construction or completely dead with no hope of being revived.

I just moved my site & upgraded. I've been shopping again. I've tried several mods to have them not work. I come back through here & read several pages of stuff & find lil edits I try to no avail. It's bad enough but when you install a software to go with the mod & have the mod not work it's ridiculous. I just wasted half the night on such a mod the other night. So I've already uninstalled not only the mod but also the software.

The one big thing you've got to remember, that you've got to take into account or the question you've got to ask yourself, "how many people are not having the same problem you are?" Now notice I say, not having and not the people who are having the same issue, because that's not the same thing. What I mean is how many people have not bothered to post any issues because they haven't encountered any and the mod is working fine for them?

This is something you have to consider, because there are an infinite number of possibilities as to why the mod isn't working for you. You can be absolutely sure your doing everything your supposed to, and come back later and realize it was user error after all, or a forgotten file, or a missed edit or just something you didn't know. I would never advise anyone to take all night on installing a modification, because sometimes spending too much time too close to a product is what's causing your problems to begin with. You have to come back to it, sometimes months later.

I think if a mod or theme is buggy & under construction it should be taken off display 'til it's fixed versus expecting people to read through pages of stuff & attempt supposed edits to no avail. And if creators know they don't want to update or support it anymore they should either move or request it be moved to the graveyard before bailing. I've come across a few that are graveyard material but haven't been moved there yet.

But you see, that's the nature of the beast. Everything here is an at your own risk type deal. With the infinite number of combinations of things that can go wrong, anything from server configuration, to conflicting mods, to user error, to user misinterpretation, to a users lever of experience, every single mod on this site could end up being removed on such a criterion. Bear in mind, too, that we support ourselves a lot of the time. A modification moved to the Graveyard means no one else who's willing or able to deal with the modification can access it anymore, as Graveyard mods have their files deleted. That is, essentially, the reason we have the Supported/Unsupported option when posting a mod.

I'm not sure if you can download while looking at the titles of all the threads within a board...but you can mark them installed & uninstalled. If you don't let these people move their own stuff to the graveyard it would be cool if you could add "under construction" or "un-supported" there or to the titles & let these folks mark them should they become so.

But bear in mind, not all modifications need support to be functional. What if threads are marked unsupported in their thread titles, and your criterion for skipping over a thread is that marking? So you might end up skipping simple two line template edits, BBCodes that seldom require support, or files that just an XML import and nothing else. Marking a thread that way would give a fair number of modifications and unjustified reason to be skipped over by many members not aware that some of these things are in fact, plug'n play.

And "under construction" is a subjective term. As was stated, most of these mods can't be fully tested until they're released to the public. That's different from a BETA, which is a product that is known to still have some bugs in it prior to it's release and is known to be unstable.

I thought I'd suggest this because I actually know some html/css & have had almost 5 years experience installing softwares/themes/mods alone. I feel sorry for the newbies who don't even know html/css much less php/MySQL/etc.

Keep in mind, though, that not every "newbie" is coming in that way. I had no experience installing mods when I first came here, had a very rudimentary understanding of HTML and no knowledge of CSS. I still know nothing about PHP and MySQL. But I can't say I've ever had a tough time installing any modification. Not all have worked, but after coming back to them after my own knowledge increased I realized it was an error on my part. Or a small omission on the part of the author that I simply wouldn't have known back then. My point is, the setup we have now is about as fair and balanced a system as we're going to get. Anything else runs of the risk of being tyrannical or unbalanced, as we have a lot of users who think everything here should be plug 'n play, and malign an author who releases something that requires a little or a lot more effort then that.

Don't feel like the time you've spent trying to make something work has been a waste of time either. If anything, the time I've spent on stuff I couldn't make work has been the most valuable time I've spent working with vBulletin. Forcing me to look deeper has forced me to understand things I didn't think I was capable of understanding.

[Netunt]

Originally Posted by Lynne

You need to actually Report it, or we don't know you want it removed.

You appear to have sorted it.