Sigh... what's with all the technical stupidity on certain forums now?

[cheat-master30]

Seriously, I swear I've seen a rise in two really bad forum usability/design mistakes which are just getting on my nerves. The first is the rise is 'you must have javascript enabled to view this site'. But the point is, where the hell is this in default vBulletin or Invision Power Board? Why are you making your site less usable by visitors than the default, when the vast majority of these sites would work completely fine without it and pretty much blocking all search bots and screen readers for no reason? It's like 1998 again or whatever in terms of design trend.

The second thing is the incredibly lazy idea of leaving the CSS code in the PAGE SOURCE of the pages. This adds like twice the amount of load time to each page and bandwidth usage, and it's not even that difficult to set one option and move it to a file where it can actually be cached by the visitor. This of course is worse in that most forums I've seen making this mistake have some of the most design and graphic intensive styles ever, and I know some which have had the CSS code THREE TIMES AS LENGTHY as the page source for the rest of the page, seemingly tripling their daily bandwidth for no good reason.

[Gio~Logist]

Blame it on global warming, seriously.

On a more serious note, i know exactly what you mean. However, it all comes down to demand. Javascript offers a variety of features to add to the user-end of your website (navigation, overall user interface, etc.)

• http://www.yahoo.com/
• http://www.cnn.com
• http://www.mostlyanysuccessfulwebsite.com

Now all have browsing features, etc. in which JavaScript can bring to your website. After websites such as these offer such methods and such a technical-interface, it increases the demand. These are universal sites which offer universal interfaces. For this reason, a lot of websites are trying to grow off of their ideas/implementations.

[cheat-master30]

I have nothing against javascript. What I'm against is stuff like this:

Attachment 86967

Note how it displays as a completely blank page with an error message with no Javascript? That's what stupid, and it's vBulletin as well, which by default does not do that.

[Lynne]

Wow, great (blank) site!

Regarding the CSS stylesheet issue, I have noticed that also. I'll go to help someone and view their page souce and scroll and scroll and scroll past the css. Not fun for me when my wrists are bothering me. In fact, there have been times I just say Forget It and don't help cuz I don't want to scroll through it all. Yeah, I'm a totally minority there, but still I have to wonder why?

vBulletin 4.0 will have a CSS based style, will be an overload of CSS elements if people leave them in source-code.

[Digital Jedi]

Is it fair to call it techincal "stupidity" when it will take the average vB owner several years before he has even studied enough to know what your talking about? This stuff has to be learned, even studied. I'm willing to bet less then half of all web site owners even have the time to do that, and it will be unlikely they will ever have a reason to find out why. Stupidity implies you already know, you just choose to ignore it. Uninformed would be more accurate.

the problem is not to know all these details but to "think to know"... they all think it is better to apply this and that, but they do not know, so they make errors... they think they know because some moronish apps are delivered to them to help them create their personal site (i mean, hum, *caugh* framers) and they apply it to their real good software... -- i even had some fights with clients who were soooooo informed of the web that they were asking to revert their site to a 1998 design because of Web2.0 ... because they know Web 2.0, they know all of it...

but they know nothing.

[Digital Jedi]

And what your describing is ignorance, not stupidity. I just don't think it's fair to malign people who can't know, as if they do know and are just choosing to ignore it.

[legionofangels]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

Is it fair to call it techincal "stupidity" when it will take the average vB owner several years before he has even studied enough to know what your talking about? This stuff has to be learned, even studied. I'm willing to bet less then half of all web site owners even have the time to do that, and it will be unlikely they will ever have a reason to find out why. Stupidity implies you already know, you just choose to ignore it. Uninformed would be more accurate.

I'm sure our website has like 40 errors in coding or something. Yep, we don't know what we're doing.

Not too prideful to ask for help or fix whatever is messed up, it's just a case that can't pay for it at the moment, and as long as pages load relatively fast pssh, I don't care.

But I'm sure cheat master could examine our CSS and find some errors in it, as our site does not have an expert coder doing it. He went to school for it, graduated, but doesn't know CSS that well, he learned it while making the site.

It's not good ideas that make good sites, it's good coders. But take that compliment with a grain of salt because there are plenty of modifications released here that are unsecured, bugged and otherwise crap, amidst the one's that are done by experts.

[iogames]

If electricity comes from electrons? does morality comes from m*r*ns?