Dumped in an inconvenient situation

[Spinball]

Hi guys,
I doubt I will get much help from this, but I feel I need to say it.
I was on holiday when vb.org sent through emails about hacks being moved to the graveyard. When I got back I had something like 1000 emails waiting for me and thinking they were just the usual update subscriptions, I mass deleted a whole bunch from vB.org. Silly, I know, but when you have 2 weeks worth of work to catch up on and an unwell wife, well these things happen.
So it wasn't until weeks later that I discovered that some of the hacks I can't live without have been 'retired'.

Danial Mented's RBL checker cut down our spam threads by over 90%. They went from being a daily pain in the ass to hardly a problem at all. This was an incredibly useful hack. Why has it gone and why isn't there a replacement? No explanation in the thread itself.

EWT Users Registered Today. nice to have hack. Actually pretty important from a marketing point of view. It helps reinforce the impression of activity on the forum and helps persuade advertisers to invest in you. I understand the author requested his hacks be removed. Fine, but what about us people who want to continue using the hack? No explanation in the thread itself.

Moderation Auto-PM was another incredibly useful hack. We have hundreds of moderating actions taken every day and it saves hours of time sending members PMs telling them their posts have been edited/deleted etc. Even though this mod is in the graveyard, I'm still using it. Can't live without it to be honest. No explanation in the thread as to why it's no longer available.

Users in thread is a hack which my members found useful and complained at its removal.

Ok, so what's my point here?
First of all I think that all threads being moved to the graveyard should have a reply at the end explaining why they are there. If coders have gone to the (often considerable) effort of publishing a hack, and (sometimes hundreds of) members have gone to the trouble of evaluating and installing them, then surely it is simple good manners to provide an explanation as to why they are suddenly 'to be avoided like the plague'.

Also not being a good enough coder (and frankly not having enough time) to recreate these hacks myself, when a hack is killed off, don't you think the vB team should do it's utmost to help the community get a replacement hack? Maybe encourage someone else to recode it?
Sorry but the excuse that the hack is copyright is irrelevant when compared to the needs of the community using it. If the original author won't/can't rewrite the hack to comply with the security requirements, then the vB.org team should ask/persuade the original authors to give permission that the hack be adopted by someone else.
Or maybe the vB.org site should state some terms and conditions whereby if an author decides not to update a hack any more, it is automatically handed over to the community.

Why not ask in the hack suggestions forum? Frankly my experience of the response one gets to suggestions in that forum is pretty poor.

I just think the vB.org team could do a little more to help people who are left stranded when hacks are removed. It's the need for these hacks which is the root of this forum's popularity. I think playing down or ignoring that need is a mistake.

Moan over.

[Dismounted]

Check Proxy RBL on New User Registration contains SQL Vulnerabilities. eXtremeTim and Alan @ CIT both requested that their modifications be removed.

[DivisionByZero]

get used to that around here. Also try not to tick off the "powers that be" by saying only good things about this site (even though it may not be the case). They love to remove hacks and censor everything that isn't in their best interest.

[Dismounted]

Originally Posted by MisterPopularity

They love to remove hacks and censor everything that isn't in their best interest.

Show me one instance of this happening...

[Spinball]

I know as well as any that running a forum (after 7 years of doing it for a living) requires a mammoth amount of political consideration and diplomacy, and you certainly can't please all the people all the time.
It is how well you look after your members that differentiates between 'a forum' and 'the one people have real loyalty to'.
It's easy for the admin and mods here to say 'well this is a platform for people to share hacks/mods for vbulletin and we don't get involved beyond that'.
However, I think the vB.org team have more of a responsibility to maintain a consistency of service from mod developers to mod users.
E.g. would the vb.org team allow a member to provide lots of buggy, poorly supported hacks without getting involved?
So it's easy to wash your hands of the situation when a developer withdraws his mods.
However, I believe that to be truly great, the vb.org team should, in such circumstances, endeavor to replace those needed hacks.
Otherwise, members like me are left up the creep without a paddle.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Spinball

E.g. would the vb.org team allow a member to provide lots of buggy, poorly supported hacks without getting involved?

There is no requirement for any author to support released modifications. It is also an authors responsibility to fix bugs (or apply fixes supplied by members). Staff are not here to judge the quality of mods, or fix errors in them, or even check them - this would be totally impractical.

Normally we will only remove a mod by request of the author. The main excepion is when exploits are reported (and confirmed) or in very rare cases, when the mod is clearly nonsense - or may even damage a forum. Such removals are at our discretion.

Originally Posted by Spinball

..the vb.org team should, in such circumstances, endeavor to replace those needed hacks.

How would you suggest vb.org replaces removed mods ?

Originally Posted by MisterPopularity

get used to that around here. Also try not to tick off the "powers that be" by saying only good things about this site (even though it may not be the case). They love to remove hacks and censor everything that isn't in their best interest.

i don't understand why you continue visiting this site if ALL is bad here....

i personally think that yes, sometimes there is a lack of explanations on why the hacks are backyarded, but when authors are not able to give their own explanations, that's a proof there was no real support... at least they can say something like "i quit"... that would help.

[Spinball]

Originally Posted by Paul M

There is no requirement for any author to support released modifications. It is also an authors responsibility to fix bugs (or apply fixes supplied by members). Staff are not here to judge the quality of mods, or fix errors in them, or even check them - this would be totally impractical.

Normally we will only remove a mod by request of the author. The main excepion is when exploits are reported (and confirmed) or in very rare cases, when the mod is clearly nonsense - or may even damage a forum. Such removals are at our discretion.

How would you suggest vb.org replaces removed mods ?

In your first paragraph you say you are not here to judge mods, yet in your second paragraph you say you will remove a mod if is nonsense or may damage a forum. How do you arrive at that decision without judging them?
Indeed, how would you have been able to decide what mods have security issues?
But I get what you mean - you have limited resources.
My suggestion is that you get more resources (i.e. more mods) and try to provide a little more in the way of support.
I'll give you an example. On our classified forums, if there is a trading dispute, the moderators will mediate and attempt to bring the situation to a mutually acceptable outcome. It's a little more that just moderating.

In answer to your question, I suggested you endeavor to replace mods. You could do this by either encouraging other coders to rewrite them, or at the very least, don't prevent enthusiastic individuals from doing so on the basis of 'copyright'.

P.S. read my signature. '...with thanks to vBulletin.org'. Maybe there should be no thanks to vBulletin.org since anyone can host a forum. Only those forum owners who provide 'a little more' for its members deserve the praise. That's what I thought vB.org did for vBulletin owners. Provide a hub for people to share hacks and oversee/steer/tender to the community to ensure its members don't get dumped on.

Seems to me that no representative of vB.org has attempted to see my point of view. You're on the defensive and that's all there is to it.
Never mind.

I'll post some requests in the suggestions forum and see what happens.

[Dean C]

Originally Posted by Spinball

In answer to your question, I suggested you endeavor to replace mods. You could do this by either encouraging other coders to rewrite them, or at the very least, don't prevent enthusiastic individuals from doing so on the basis of 'copyright'.

I completely disagree with you on that one. You say copyright as if it's there to be breached. It's there for a reason, to protect peoples work. It's the authors responsibility to keep their work up to date, not yours, not mine, and not the moderators here.

[Spinball]

Originally Posted by Dean C

I completely disagree with you on that one. You say copyright as if it's there to be breached. It's there for a reason, to protect peoples work. It's the authors responsibility to keep their work up to date, not yours, not mine, and not the moderators here.

And if the author doesn't give a toss? If they've cleared off, they probably don't give a damn.
At least ask the author if it's ok if someone adopts the hack and post an invite to the community to take up the reigns.