enough is enough....people get ripped off!!

[legionofangels]

Originally Posted by Dean C

At the end of the day the thing that's stopping the staff here from wanting to do this is because of the disputes that will arise over bad rep. They don't have time to investigate that that is understandable. That is why I suggested making the feedback system opt-in.

I disagree with this completely. It isn't time, it's interest. They don't want to have to investigate anything. I mean you people must be under the assumption that even though a ton of projects are "listed" in there that all of them are filled, and coders are working here 24/7 on projects. The staff is not that busy here, and not only that, only rare times will complaints be brought up, and investigations have to be taken place.

I mean hell, here is an example of abuse. I got bad ratings on all of my graphics I submitted, ALL ON THE SAME NIGHT, after a thread was made asking for the "type" of graphics that I had submitted. I think it was done by the lone competing designer, and yeah, I think it was petty and trivial and never made a complaint to the staff. Why? Because I don't really care if other people like them or not, or give me bad ratings. I made them for free, they took a whole damn week, I looked at all of them on my board and I tend to be a pretty picky person, so I think they look alright. Anyways, I never made a complaint.

Pssh, so what I'm saying is after my mini-rant is that many people won't make complaints. But other things could be done. Like in the specific feedback forum, YOU CAN'T put a rating on a thread, until you've replied to it. OR we could require all users that post feedback of coders to supply an attachment of the code/product that was made IN APPLICATION, (( not hard code)) so that everyone can verify it's a valid job, AND that person has a right to give a rating to the coder.

The real issue is everyone is afraid of negative feedback, and negative feedback has to be allowed. I mean from guru, I got 8/10, 7/10 service, the one time we used a coder here we got good service 9/10. But still, if someone did not fulfill the details they should get what they deserve.

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In all honesty I cannot believe this place hasn't been sued yet. I mean you can stand behind the "we are not offering the service" all day long, but you allow for the interaction of prospective client/dealer relationships to foster and you dedicate a section of your website for this specific purpose. So to try and backslide and say "hey...it's not our responsibility or fault", are you sure? Because you allowed people to join and your site allowed a scammer to join, and you supplied the medium for which they could interact and in turn someone got ripped off.

It kind of makes you wonder, if it's not necessary for escrow, why do the other sites use it?

Even if vb.org never was sued, the other thing I'm surprised on is that no one has ever tried subpeoning for the IP address and information of a user they wish to take to court.

After all these years you think it would have happened by now.

A feedback system with ratings would actually protect this website in saying, "hey, the person viewed the user ratings of the coder, they made the decision to buy". So if someone has no ratings, pssh, its' completely the clients risk as this website has no information on the new coder applying for the job.

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I disagree even further with the stupid rule that only the thread starter can respond. Not only open up competition on bidding, but jeez, when multiple admins come here, we can't even reply in our own requests because the other admin made the thread. It's annoying.

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Lastly making a feedback forum, with a description, and rules would take 15 minutes flat.

With 15 more minutes on some specifications in the admin cp, or some very basic coding for advanced things like "require an attachment" or "require post before rating".

I think of VB.org as Unsecured at Use At Your Own Risk, and while I like the members here and ironically have had good luck with coders, due to the management of the system, this is my last resort for hiring a coder.

Don't be insulted, some of you are great, and while you might get hosed sometimes to, protecting and insuring your customers is number 1. Because without customers, you have no business.

Thanks for your time,

I'm done

Legion of Angels

[King Kovifor]

vBulletin.org isn't here as the site legal background that will protect our members in that way. As we have the forum, we allow our members to list jobs and find a coder. It is up to the client to do research (even I admit it is kind of hard as it stands) and chose the best coder. The business is taken into private as we are not here to manage the transaction.

The staff are run by volunteers who have "lives" outside of vBulletin.org and cannot devote 24/7 to this site. And just because you don't see staff actions, it doesn't mean we aren't busy.

[legionofangels]

Originally Posted by King Kovifor

The staff are run by volunteers who have "lives" outside of vBulletin.org and cannot devote 24/7 to this site. And just because you don't see staff actions, it doesn't mean we aren't busy.

Nice Edit.

I never said you weren't busy, I'm busy, I know what it's like to run a forum since i obviously do, so no need to try and patronize me.

However, the changes that I've suggested, whether the best choice or not, are fast and will work. It's not like it'd take 5 weeks to implement.

Hold a vote in the staff forum, thats what we do, 7 days on all decisions, then implement. Sitting around here discussing things for pages upon pages, and this ain't the first time we've had this discussion shows a complete lack of action by the staff.

And I'm sorry, but I don't care too overly much if you're volunteers or not, so are my staff members and I appreciate the work they give, but MOST if not ALL vote, while I and ONE other person implement. So granted there are few workhorses, but everyone is keen on voicing there opinion and the need to fix problems as they arise.

This is a problem, and one you people haven't fixed for quite some time. It's time to do something about it.

Thanks,

L E G I O N

[King Kovifor]

Yeah, thanks Roms. But staff discussions are held all the time. The administrators are all extremely busy as of right now. While I am not meaning to patronize you, but assumptions were made without solid proof, which cannot be obtained by you. But, if any system was implemented, I garuntee there would be a staff discussion.

Also, this site has what I would call "unique challenges" when implementing a feature. The best interest of the goal of this community needs addressed, as with most other sites I have been staff on, will implement features because they are wanted and won't neccessarily benefit the community as a whole.

[dtv100]

Originally Posted by King Kovifor

Yeah, thanks Roms. But staff discussions are held all the time. The administrators are all extremely busy as of right now. While I am not meaning to patronize you, but assumptions were made without solid proof, which cannot be obtained by you. But, if any system was implemented, I garuntee there would be a staff discussion.

Also, this site has what I would call "unique challenges" when implementing a feature. The best interest of the goal of this community needs addressed, as with most other sites I have been staff on, will implement features because they are wanted and won't neccessarily benefit the community as a whole.

quick question :

vbulletin.org staff have Discussions about members feedbacks post in this section ?

[Attilitus]

Just a quick question:

Why is it a problem to add a subforum to the Paid Service request forum called "Feedback" with the same permissions that currently exist in the Paid Service Request forum? A user can create a thread that only they and staff can reply to.

There seem to be two arguments against this kind of addition:

1) It would be too difficult to moderate/control.
2) It would undermine the site's roots as a free coding community.
3) User's currently do not update their service request threads, therefore there does not appear to be a desire to post feedback.

The first issue is true to a small extent. However, such a simple feedback forum would be only marginally more difficult to manage than the status quo in which feedback is mainly "hidden" in updated service threads.

The second issue is basically a mute point. The unpaid modification request forum was demoted to a subforum, and the Paid Service Request forum exists. Both of these details have undermined the purity of vBulletin's title as a free modification community. Like it or not, it is now also the best place to hire talented freelancers familiar with vBulletin.

The third issue is also valid to a certain extent. User's do not consistently update their threads with feedback. However, the underuse of feedback systems is fairly common on many sites in which trade/hiring occurs. Also having a clear location for user's feedback to be heard will promote, rather than discourage clients to "follow up" on their experiences.

Finally, the goal of the feedback forum is very conservative: stop serial scammers. Right now when clients post a paid service thread they have no way of easily checking to see if a coder is a known scammer. Having a feedback forum will make it absolutely clear where a client ought to check before hiring.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by legionofangels

I never said you weren't busy

Um, yes you did.

Originally Posted by legionofangels

I disagree with this completely. It isn't time, it's interest. They don't want to have to investigate anything. I mean you people must be under the assumption that even though a ton of projects are "listed" in there that all of them are filled, and coders are working here 24/7 on projects. The staff is not that busy here, and not only that, only rare times will complaints be brought up, and investigations have to be taken place.

As previously said, the staff here are volunteers, who have busy lives (and other forums) away from vb.org.

I dont know how many times or different ways we can say this, but there are no plans at the moment to either close the SR forum, or add any sort of feedback system, and whatever you may think, this has been discussed endlessly by the staff behind the scenes.

[legionofangels]

Seriously, pride a little hurt because of a joke?

Give me a break.

I didn't say it unequivocally that you weren't busy at all, I said "not that busy". Nor do I care to hear this "who have lives outside of here"...for your information, I've heard that from like 10 years ago when I found my first forum and a discussion that touched on staff activity came up. Just so all of you staff here know WE ALL HAVE LIVES OUTSIDE HERE TO!

So it's not like you're telling us something we've never heard before or don't experience ourselves.

It's just amazing if time has been wasted endlessly discussing this, why nothing has been done. I mean considering the fact that in a few months now I've seen this same thread reoccur, and reoccur, and reoccur.

About time to do something, yes?

Oh there is no plans for a feedback forum, here is a hint, make a plan.

Admin CP > Forums & Moderators > Add New Child Forum > Parent Forum > Requests For Paid Services > Moderator = who cares

^ how's my plan look? I just timed it, it takes like 1 minute 43 seconds to do this whole thing.

1:43... you're slow, LoA.... it takes me less than 20 seconds to create a new forum with moderator.. lol

[Boofo]

You're slowing down, Nex.