for those who have left

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by Revan

Oh, I must have misunderstood your previous posts (or not read them well enough), my bad

I'm sure most of them don't come off the way I meant them at the time. I just get sick of the "us and them" comparisons all the time, you know what I mean?

I agree on the monument of Boofo but I think it should be more like "kids if you ever turn out like this imma come smack you"

We definitely need to have a talk, son. I have earned that monument by putting up with abuse just like this for sooooo long.

[JayJay]

Whilst I agree with the recent posts by Revan, I wish to throw in an additional aspect that has not been looked at in any detail in this thread.

There's a part in which us 'normal' members can play, and that is through making qualitative posts on modification threads - especially when asking for help. How many times have you seen somebody say that a coder's modification just doesn't work, yet doesn't explain the problem that they are facing? Surely this aggrovates the coder. With more members here at .org than there possibly has been in the past, this sort of thing is probably far more evidential than it was in the past.

There is also another aspect, which I'm sure is trying to be avoided because of the type of debate that arises from it due to a lack of understanding, and that is through normal members giving a little back to the coders themselves through small donations here and there to those modifications that make our lives, as administrators of our own communities, so much easier!

At vB.org we are a community, and that is something which we should not lose sight of. As such, we all have our parts to play (be it the Cheese Meister or the person who is required to erect Boofo's monument) and should not be naive to that fact and start blaming the staff here (who give up endless amounts of time - in addition to other commitments) for what can appear as a mass-exodus to those who know the coders who have left.

Just to reilliterate, it is a loss to see some good coders leave and they are more than welcome back (as is anybody) here and maybe one day they will return. However, in the meantime, it is vital that as a community we work with what we have;

"Treasure what you have, as you could lose it at any moment".

(Boofo, don't tell me that brought a tear to your eye please )

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by JayJ

(Boofo, don't tell me that brought a tear to your eye please )

I'm a man, dammit! Things like that have no effect on me. :cross-eyed:

[high]* Boofo runs for the Kleenex like a wimped-out sissy![/high]

[peterska2]

Originally Posted by Revan

My point? My point is that I have no problems with admitting that just two years ago I was PHP illiterate, my HTML/JS knowledge could make even Boofo laugh (and would probably make K-A cry ) and yet I am pro-giving coders/designers perks for contributing to the site.

Hey I totally understand that.

I knew absolutely zip about HTML, CSS, JS or PHP when I first started out. A trip down memory lane just confirms this:
My 3rd post on the site
My first modification

Looking back now, I cringe. But there were people who helped me to learn then, so I help other people where I can.

My PHP is still very limited, but I can create a product to include a custom template.

What I'm trying to say (and not making a very good job of it ), is that if experienced vBulletin users (doesn't have to be coders for some things) help others out when they ask questions or get stuck, then in turn as they learn they will do the same. Some people might head into coding (PHP or HTML), some into skinning, but others will be happy realising that they have learned a little bit and can get by.

The other thing is that it doesn't matter how experienced a user or coder you are, you can still make mistakes or not know the answer to something. I've made one yesterday which I hadn't even realised. The problem was easily solved, but it puzzled me why the person should be getting an error. In fact someone else pointed out why, which I appreciated.

The whole idea of a community is to help each other, and sometimes things are not quick fixes, or someone can hash together a quick fix for something while a better permanent fix is sorted out. Some of the most common questions that come up are things that are set by vB Options and most vB Admins should be able to answer them questions. Admittedly, you might have to look something up, but everyone has to check things from time to time anyway, even the Jelsoft staff at vB.com get things wrongs sometimes so don't worry, if everyone just does their best then everyone will be able to help someone even if it is in the smallest way possible.


(eeek it took me that long to get my wording and sentiment right - plus being disturbed by the phone - that the world and his wife has already posted!)

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Boofo

I'm sure most of them don't come off the way I meant them at the time. I just get sick of the "us and them" comparisons all the time, you know what I mean?

Yeah I hear ya on that one, after all (in spite of what you like to think) you are only human
But on that "us and them" aspect, I don't think that the fact that there is an "us and them" aspect that's the problem. Humans are like that, I believe. We like to stick people in containers and label them. The problem is that we shouldn't double NY-lock shut the doors to anyone who wish to sniff around our container If that even made sense.
And I am fully aware of the fact that the above sounds a bit hypocritical coming from me, given the fact that my post count in the PHP/XHTML/JS forum is pretty darn low, and I don't have any good excuses as to why that is so.

Originally Posted by Boofo

We definitely need to have a talk, son. I have earned that monument by putting up with abuse just like this for sooooo long.

Hey your the one who blocked ME on MSN remember? You walked out on ME, so don't be putting the blame on me mister! You said it was over, so I said fine, then you said fine. YOU started it! :cry:

Originally Posted by peterska2

My 3rd post on the site

[high]* Revan tries to restrain the laughter [/high]
Nah seriously, it's amazing how far we have gotten isn't it?

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by Revan

Hey your the one who blocked ME on MSN remember? You walked out on ME, so don't be putting the blame on me mister! You said it was over, so I said fine, then you said fine. YOU started it! :cry:

And not one lick of spousal support either.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Boofo

And not one lick of spousal support either.

What would you have me do? I was hurt and angry

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by Revan

What would you have me do? I was hurt and angry

I suppose we could kiss and make up and long as you promise not to tell a soul and ruin my manly image. Shhhhh...

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Boofo

I suppose we could kiss and make up and long as you promise not to tell a soul and ruin my manly image. Shhhhh...

Sounds like a deal.
[high]* Revan gives Boofo a man-hug to keep up appearances[/high]

[peterska2]

Originally Posted by Revan

[high]* Revan tries to restrain the laughter [/high]
Nah seriously, it's amazing how far we have gotten isn't it?

Yeah, I dream in div's classes and tables now! I even catch myself talking in if conditions from time to time. I did in the supermarket on Friday with my Dad.

Dad: What do you want for tea?
Me: if chips then chicken else lasagne
Dad: You what?????

I love diging out some of my really early stuff and laughing at it. Maybe one day I'll be able to stop laughing long enough to see about making it work with 3.6 (I won't get it done before then, I can promise that) and making the code all pretty like I do these days.