for those who have left

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

is the code just going to magically appear? There's a far more limited supply of coders willing to release their work(especially good coders) than there are people needing code.

I'm not saying treat coders as if they're better people for knowing how to code, I'm saying give them some perks, show some more appreciation. Don't expect code to be written for free, don't expect more people to come and replace people who have left. If people feel like their contributions don't mean anything or don't make a difference than they will in fact leave.

There's so many members that seem to think they are entitled to custom code, 24/7 support for all their questions and problems and that everything should happen on their schedule. Maybe there's some misunderstanding with many members that think the coders here are employees or something?

And no where in my posts did I refer to sucking up to coders or trying to become their buddies, etc. As you said, I am here for the code, but I'm not ignorant, I know there's a person on the other end who has to write the code. I don't have to kiss up to them, but I should respect the work they've done, the time they've put in and the fact that they're willing to share it with me.

As far as the private forum thing, why is that such a big deal? Do we even have to know about it? Do you have a forum with some sort of staff section that only you have access to? Does that give you an elitist attitude? Maybe there's some things that coders should be able to discuss behind closed doors, like how to deal with disrespectful members, pointing out security problems in a hack or even reprimanding someone for an elitist attitude

We are all the same, just some of us already know how to code and some of us don't. The ones that don't will be filling the shoes of the ones that do when they move on. It's a cycle. No one is above reproach here as this is a sharing and learning site. Some coders have a hard time admitting that they didn't know squat when they started out. If you feed their egos as you are suggesting, then that makes it even easier for them to not remember. I agree they should be shown the respect and admiration for their ability to code. By overdoing it is not the answer, either. There are enough egos floating around here as it is without compounding the problem. I little humility can be had by all from time to time.

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by gio~logist

Who is boofo, boo who? Boofo. Boo what? boofo.

Coun't to fo' it's boofo. Burn down the roofo! I can rap mucho. Ew, no?

There's your explanation!

I stand by my post and this proves my point expertly. :cross-eyed:

[Freesteyelz]

Originally Posted by Boofo

There are enough egos floating around here

[EasyTarget]

Originally Posted by Boofo

We are all the same, just some of us already know how to code and some of us don't. The ones that don't will be filling the shoes of the ones that do when they move on. It's a cycle. No one is above reproach here as this is a sharing and learning site. Some coders have a hard time admitting that they didn't know squat when they started out. If you feed their egos as you are suggesting, then that makes it even easier for them to not remember. I agree they should be shown the respect and admiration for their ability to code. By overdoing it is not the answer, either. There are enough egos floating around here as it is without compounding the problem. I little humility can be had by all from time to time.

how am I suggesting to feed their egos? what am I suggesting that is overdoing it? In fact, I don't think I've suggested anything besides giving respect, just everyone here is so caught up in thinking that all coders are egotistical that just mentioning respect for coders seems to mean I'm saying they're better than everyone else.

If you're read my some of my other threads you've seen that I thought people like amy and paul (from what I can tell their hacks are some of the most used) could polish the way they speak to members sometimes (same with zachery and chris.. if zachery is the same one at vbadvanced).

Just read the words that I'm writing without adding your own meaning and history here to them. I'm trying to be objective.. as you can tell I'm no coder and I'm not a moderator, I get no benefit for spending time in this part of the forums.

And that cycle (coders leave, members learn code and replace them) isn't really as global as you make it sound.. how many members, who don't know a thing about code, actually go on to become coders and release hacks here? (yes, I'm aware that there's a few, my point is that 90/95% or more don't)

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

how am I suggesting to feed their egos? what am I suggesting that is overdoing it? In fact, I don't think I've suggested anything besides giving respect, just everyone here is so caught up in thinking that all coders are egotistical that just mentioning respect for coders seems to mean I'm saying they're better than everyone else.

If you're read my some of my other threads you've seen that I thought people like amy and paul (from what I can tell their hacks are some of the most used) could polish the way they speak to members sometimes (same with zachery and chris.. if zachery is the same one at vbadvanced).

Just read the words that I'm writing without adding your own meaning and history here to them. I'm trying to be objective.. as you can tell I'm no coder and I'm not a moderator, I get no benefit for spending time in this part of the forums.

And that cycle (coders leave, members learn code and replace them) isn't really as global as you make it sound.. how many members, who don't know a thing about code, actually go on to become coders and release hacks here? (yes, I'm aware that there's a few, my point is that 90/95% or more don't)

Ok, let me ask you this then? Do you think that all of the coders here came here knowing how to code? Some will claim they did, and some of them are blowing smoke in that claim. There are a few who did, yes, but not nearly as many as you would think there is. The coders today or no more important than the coders of tomorrow are is all I'm saying. We don't have the same community spirit now that we used to have when I started (Yes, the Chen days is what I am speaking of). Everyone seems to have gotten off track with all the "us and them" talk of late. And the main problem is exactly what most of them are complaining about./ the lack of respect and acknowledgment.

I Don't care about the respect of acknowledgment, myself, as I am old enough to know that coding ability has very little to do with that in the real world. That and that fact that I suck at coding.

So, I am not adding any more meaning to your words than what I read into them, like anyone will read.

[kall]

Originally Posted by Boofo

Do you think that all of the coders here came here knowing how to code? Some will claim they did, and some of them are blowing smoke in that claim.

I'm one that came here knowing veeeery little about code.

I currently know only a small amount...I can read it and know what it does, but coming up with anything radically new is beyond me.

My hat is off to everyone who releases something new that someone else finds useful.

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by kall

I'm one that came here knowing veeeery little about code.

I currently know only a small amount...I can read it and know what it does, but coming up with anything radically new is beyond me.

My hat is off to everyone who releases something new that someone else finds useful.

Exactly! And that is the way it should be. For everyone. If more people felt that way, the "them and us" crap might never have ever gotten started.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

is the code just going to magically appear? There's a far more limited supply of coders willing to release their work(especially good coders) than there are people needing code.

I'm not saying treat coders as if they're better people for knowing how to code, I'm saying give them some perks, show some more appreciation. Don't expect code to be written for free, don't expect more people to come and replace people who have left. If people feel like their contributions don't mean anything or don't make a difference than they will in fact leave.

There's so many members that seem to think they are entitled to custom code, 24/7 support for all their questions and problems and that everything should happen on their schedule. Maybe there's some misunderstanding with many members that think the coders here are employees or something?

And no where in my posts did I refer to sucking up to coders or trying to become their buddies, etc. As you said, I am here for the code, but I'm not ignorant, I know there's a person on the other end who has to write the code. I don't have to kiss up to them, but I should respect the work they've done, the time they've put in and the fact that they're willing to share it with me.

As far as the private forum thing, why is that such a big deal? Do we even have to know about it? Do you have a forum with some sort of staff section that only you have access to? Does that give you an elitist attitude? Maybe there's some things that coders should be able to discuss behind closed doors, like how to deal with disrespectful members, pointing out security problems in a hack or even reprimanding someone for an elitist attitude

Agree++;
Besides, I hear rumours that there's a designer forum available and hidden, but I have never in my life heard anyone whining about how everybody can't access this.
Disclaimer: I dont know if it exists, I just heard it randomly mentioned in a post somewhere.

Originally Posted by Boofo

We are all the same, just some of us already know how to code and some of us don't. The ones that don't will be filling the shoes of the ones that do when they move on. It's a cycle. No one is above reproach here as this is a sharing and learning site. Some coders have a hard time admitting that they didn't know squat when they started out. If you feed their egos as you are suggesting, then that makes it even easier for them to not remember. I agree they should be shown the respect and admiration for their ability to code. By overdoing it is not the answer, either. There are enough egos floating around here as it is without compounding the problem. I little humility can be had by all from time to time.

I came to the org knowing sod all about coding. I had done a simple if...else chain to add a variable to a template on a wBB board.
My first thread here was this, and even though that thread implies that I knew coding just because I had worked on the conversion, trust me it doesnt.
I had hassled with the problem the thread was about for 3 months, and it was fixed by changing a complicated for() to a simple while().
Nobody with coding knowledge was able to help, as you can see per the thread. True, I fixed it on my own in such a short time that there wasn't much chance for people to reply, but still.

My point? My point is that I have no problems with admitting that just two years ago I was PHP illiterate, my HTML/JS knowledge could make even Boofo laugh (and would probably make K-A cry ) and yet I am pro-giving coders/designers perks for contributing to the site.

As for the ego argument, it is very true that some will take on a holier than thou attitude. But even if you strip away everything, make coders have the Member branch of titles, take away the private forum, everything, those people will still have said attitude. They will just ahve a harder time showing it off, which IMO is counter-productive as it hurts the coders that just wants to feel appreciated by the staff without walking around on clouds.
If one would say that coders shouldnt need to feel appreciated because contributing to the community is its own reward and whatnot, then I call bs. As a coder of a Major Addon, I know first hand how demanding some users can be. And how many such users flock to your hacks. It's just nice to have something to fall back on, something to take your mind off the users that piss you off.

Im not saying that coders should have to be sacrificed a firstborn to in order to be communicated with, Im just saying I can't see any severe con to giving them some extra benefits beyond a private forum and a title. After all, time and time again customers have said that they choose vB because of the hacks available to it, and until the day where vB codes everything under the sun and offers it as modules for the stock software, coders are needed.
Yes coders will be replaced, eventually. Keyword eventually. If I were to take my RPG away today, do you honestly think that tomorrow someone would recode one from scratch and offer it here for free? No, and in the between time, the users would be on their own. Im just saying that if anything can be done to prevent coders/designers from leaving and it doesn't sound ludicrous (such as "give coders a free vB lic" does), I see no immediate reason why it can't be done.


Just my NOK 0,0033 (rougly converted)
Request: Unless I am mistaken, I avoided using sarcasm in this post. If you are going to reply, please try to do the same. Not only is sarcasm harder to detect in text, it doesn't promote a healthy, "cold" debate.
Thank you for understanding.

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by Revan

Agree++;
Besides, I hear rumours that there's a designer forum available and hidden, but I have never in my life heard anyone whining about how everybody can't access this.
Disclaimer: I dont know if it exists, I just heard it randomly mentioned in a post somewhere.

I came to the org knowing sod all about coding. I had done a simple if...else chain to add a variable to a template on a wBB board.
My first thread here was this, and even though that thread implies that I knew coding just because I had worked on the conversion, trust me it doesnt.
I had hassled with the problem the thread was about for 3 months, and it was fixed by changing a complicated for() to a simple while().
Nobody with coding knowledge was able to help, as you can see per the thread. True, I fixed it on my own in such a short time that there wasn't much chance for people to reply, but still.

My point? My point is that I have no problems with admitting that just two years ago I was PHP illiterate, my HTML/JS knowledge could make even Boofo laugh (and would probably make K-A cry ) and yet I am pro-giving coders/designers perks for contributing to the site.

As for the ego argument, it is very true that some will take on a holier than thou attitude. But even if you strip away everything, make coders have the Member branch of titles, take away the private forum, everything, those people will still have said attitude. They will just ahve a harder time showing it off, which IMO is counter-productive as it hurts the coders that just wants to feel appreciated by the staff without walking around on clouds.
If one would say that coders shouldnt need to feel appreciated because contributing to the community is its own reward and whatnot, then I call bs. As a coder of a Major Addon, I know first hand how demanding some users can be. And how many such users flock to your hacks. It's just nice to have something to fall back on, something to take your mind off the users that piss you off.

Im not saying that coders should have to be sacrificed a firstborn to in order to be communicated with, Im just saying I can't see any severe con to giving them some extra benefits beyond a private forum and a title. After all, time and time again customers have said that they choose vB because of the hacks available to it, and until the day where vB codes everything under the sun and offers it as modules for the stock software, coders are needed.
Yes coders will be replaced, eventually. Keyword eventually. If I were to take my RPG away today, do you honestly think that tomorrow someone would recode one from scratch and offer it here for free? No, and in the between time, the users would be on their own. Im just saying that if anything can be done to prevent coders/designers from leaving and it doesn't sound ludicrous (such as "give coders a free vB lic" does), I see no immediate reason why it can't be done.


Just my NOK 0,0033 (rougly converted)
Request: Unless I am mistaken, I avoided using sarcasm in this post. If you are going to reply, please try to do the same. Not only is sarcasm harder to detect in text, it doesn't promote a healthy, "cold" debate.
Thank you for understanding.

See? This is the kind of posts we need from more coders. I heartily agree there should be more recognition for coders, I always have. I just don't think erecting a monument or giving them free cheese (hmmmm... cheese) is the answer (unless your name is Boofo, of course, and then the monument better be a big one with something like... "you are my God and I wanna be like you when I grow up" somewhere on it).

By the way, there was no sarcasm anywhere in my post. I was serious about my monument.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Boofo

See? This is the kind of posts we need from more coders. I heartily agree there should be more recognition for coders, I always have.

Oh, I must have misunderstood your previous posts (or not read them well enough), my bad

Originally Posted by Boofo

I just don't think erecting a monument or giving them free cheese (hmmmm... cheese) is the answer (unless your name is Boofo, of course, and then the monument better be a big one with something like... "you are my God and I wanna be like you when I grow up" somewhere on it).

By the way, there was no sarcasm anywhere in my post. I was serious about my monument.

I agree on the monument of Boofo but I think it should be more like "kids if you ever turn out like this imma come smack you"