Proposal: The vBulletin.org Commercial Services and Addons Directory.

[Sculli]

I am not in favor of adding commercial 3rd party software to this site, be it as directory or otherwise. Granted, I am new at vb.org, but for the sake of the community spirit that seems to have been developed and cultivated here over the years I hope that there will be no commercial hacks on this site.

Developers of commercial hacks are free to post free-of-charge lite versions of their products here. I doubt there is any better "free" advertising for them than to post a lite version. If their product is good, the community will surely support their development by purchasing the full commercial version as needed.

I can see the need for a central directory for vB hacks. My suggestion would be to take it offsite using a new domain name.

I understand that there are members who want commercial products on here, but I can also imagine that many valuable members will be driven away from vB.org by a decision to commercialize this forum (even if it is "just" a directory).

[Cap'n Steve]

I think this is a great idea. No one comes here because of some "community spirit", they come here to get and discuss vBulletin addons. How can vb.org be the definitive site for vBulletin modifications if it completely ignores commercial hacks?

Although I like the idea, I'm a little wary of the fees. As far as I'm concerned, a portion of the $320 of mine that Jelsoft already has should be enough of a contribution from me to support this site. There absolutely needs to be some sort of rating system, too. Maybe force users to write a review instead of just choosing a rating and have the reviews be moderated, if necessary.

As a side note, why would anyone think a lawyer's opinion is needed here? Here's the disclaimer for you, free of charge: "Clicking a link in this section will lead to a website not affiliated with Jelsoft or vBulletin. Jelsoft is not responsible for any content that may be there."

EDIT: How did this thread get 1 install? :ninja:

[sub_ubi]

A complete directory of paid hacks is sorely needed, as some of the best stuff for VB is unkown to many people here. Please don't only list hacks that pay you, list them all.

• Reviews. I need to know if what I'm buying is going to do what it says it does, or if it will turn into vBauction.
• Forum. Lets say there are two $100 CMPS hacks that are both rated 5 stars. I'd like to be able to discuss which one is best for my site with other vb.org users.
• VB version. I want to see what version is supported.
• Don't charge coders to be on the list! I like your free ideas but they are limiting. We need a complete directory - including those that don't generate enough profit to advertise. It will benefit the community much more if we had a full list. If you need to charge them, make them pay to be higher on the list, or to have a bold name, or to have a big description, but don't leave someone out because they can't afford to be on your list. Even if it's just a tiny link at the bottom of the barrel that looks like this, leave them on.
  
  There is such thing as difficult, complex hacks that nobody would code for free, and that will only appeal to 2 or 3 users - they can't afford advertisements with 2 or 3 customers, so please don't leave them off the list.
  
  
• Charge a monthly fee to be at the top of the list, or to have a bold name, a picture, or something else. This will make up for the ones who get on free.

[micheal332001]

I think this is a good idea all round but as many have said there will be problems with it.

problems i see is small hack coders like myself will not be able to pay to put a link up on here,
Why the reason being im a single dad and i dont get much in the way of money.

Someone said why not keep the hacks free and let people donate to them, well let me say people will not donate to hacks as they want every thing for free and they dont care how much work has been put into a hack.

Yes we all want things for free but if you like some thing someone has made help them out and send some money, But no one does. This is why some coders have started to charge for there hacks as they are not getting any thing from anyone.

Coders will still make free hacks and call them hackname lite or some thing like that.
In there Signature they would be able to put a link to where to buy the pro version of there hack.
Maybe instead of making a forum or some thing up to list all commercial hacks that some coders have for sale,
Why not make a new members list up with all the coders and in that list it shows there website where to get there hacks from.
This way there is no extra cost to vb.org or any coder.

Or why not just let coders put a link in there signatures only 1 per coder this would save all the problems.

[WNxWakko]

I don't agree with allowing Commercial hacks to find their way into vb.org. I believe in the short-term everything would be reasonable. We would see a handful of commercial mods and for the most part we would all still continue to enjoy the free mods we have today. I think a large part of the good mods are already released and more than likely what you see now, probably wont convert to commercial. I think what will happen is when VB releases the next version 4.0 and all the mods have to be rebuilt. The Long-term effect I believe is we will see a huge boom in commercial mods and find many of our favorites that have been ported from v2 to 3 to 3.5 or even many of the newest and latest mods in 3.5 no longer free. A lot of them will see $$ in their eyes and think, hey why not port it and make a few bucks. The free mods will decrease and all the high quality mods will cost money.

Guess what will happen if most of the mods disappear? You will see alot not renewing and moving over to the next biggest board in line that has the most free mods and VB will lose in the end. Sure you will still retain alot of members who don’t mod, those that buy, install and go. They won’t be affected, but are you willing to give up a chunk of your valued and very loyal members in exchange if this turns out as I predicted? Do you like to gamble?

--------------------------------------

Now, let’s assume no matter what I say, you go ahead with the support. In that case which I do not support, I would make some suggestions.

I think a commercial directory should be on its own domain selected by the vb.org team, something like vbservices.net or com if you wish. Keep it separated and the negative effects might not be as bad. I also agree that they should only be viewable by licensed members.

Now there is the argument that if you have commercial, then it should be open for newcomers to see. I agree and disagree. The solution would be to allow the viewing of the directory by anonymous visitors with some things hidden. Hide the mods home URL support link, hide the author name, hide any download links, and hide anything that remotely connects that user to the mod or website to obtain the mod without being licensed. This does two things. It allows those shopping for a board, looking at what’s offered with VB and the mod community. They get to view what the mod does in a summary. However, you not allowing the viewing of any contact info, author info or anything to keep out people running illegal version of the board searching for mods. I say the author name because they could just Google it and it would take them to anyone’s site that has the credits and connect the dots. I believe anyone that is so set on lettings anonymous users’ view this directory isn’t thinking about the illegal versions, the people who don’t pay, that use bit-torrent to get the latest board. They will benefit by a commercial site openly published. I stand behind the team here in their statement of making it member viewable only that would be the best security of all.

I also think charging them to publish on the directory is a good idea. It helps keep the directory from filling up with every single hack you could imagine just because people want to make some money. You’re not going to get support on vb.org forums for commercially listed mods, so use at your own risk. At least at VB if it goes wrong, the author can help, and even if they don’t, usually other members and staff give you a helping hand.

In the end, stay out of commercial, or at the bare minimum, let them list, but don’t

[dndog]

Adding a monetary aspect to this site would ruin its origins and flavor...capitalism is the true killer of open source and the wonderfulness of the community we have here at vBulletin.org.

One of the main reasons I chose vBulletin over any of the competition was the fact that it had one of the most supportive and helpful hacking communities. By installing many free hacks and experiencing my own stumbles along the way, I've learned a lot about php, all due to this community.

As soon as a paid hacks section is added, people will release hacks for the wrong reasons. Hack-making is NOT that profitable of an enterprise (as many have first gone commercial, then end up releasing their hack free at vB.org), and I think we at vBulletin.org should keep it this way, promoting open source and doing things for the good of everyone. If vBulletin.org fosters/supports the idea that hack making could be profitable, if vBulletin.org allows a large member base to see these paid hacks and increase the sales of them, and if vBulletin.org makes no real reason for its members to release hacks for free, we will end up with only a selection of free hacks that are small modifications, and large hacks (vBadvanced, v3arcade) as commercial only.

Is this good for everyone, or only for those few who make these hacks?

[Justice]

And I feel like everyone's forgetting the big picture. These hacks benefit Jelsoft the most, because many of the major vbulletin updates contain features inspired from hacks. So let me get this straight... I have an innovative idea for my forum, pay a programmer some ridiculous amount of money to get an exclusive, fancy hack, and then vBulletin later adds this feature to their software for everyone else for free? That's counter-productive for the webmasters paying for hacks, only benefiting the coders and Jelsoft. Why can't we just keep the current system, but employ a stronger donation system. We keep things open source and communal, and the coders get some financial compensation for their efforts, and Jelsoft gets a stronger product. Win/win for everyone.

[lazytown]

Here are some of my ramblings.

Originally I wondered why VB.org didn't list all the commercial hacks available. It would be nice to see them all in one place. I don't like having to scour the net to find them. HOWEVER, as I have come to use and love VB.org, I can say that I think it would detract from the quality and quantity of free mods for vbulletin. I own 3 licenses (soon to be 5) and I must say that if it wasn't for free mods here, I might be using some other product (free or commercial).

If there are to be commercial listings (which I think is very likely): I would say that the charge for inclusion should be on the high side. This would hopefully prevent the tiny mods/hacks from trying to go commercial. Also, you would be providing them with quite a good source of advertising and it shouldn't come cheap. The ones who are currently making good money in the addon business can surely afford it. That is the main purpose of this discussion - to include the commercial mods.. I don't think it should be to encourage existing free mods to go commercial.

My biggest worry is that developers of existing mods will change over to commercial once a new version of VB comes out and leave their existing users with the option of removing their mod or paying a fee to continue using it. Although I personally have funds to support this, I would be very upset if I saw this happen to a lot of mods. I've already seen it happen so some here. There should be some mechanism to prevent this from happening (or at least put some restrictions on it). Also, there needs to be a mechanism to prevent users from taking a buggy mod and charging for the then fixed mod (as I've also seen attempted).

Finally, I think it is ESSENTIAL that some part of the site be devoted to discussion of commercial mods. It doesn't have to be within the directory itself, but I think it's important that we be able to rate and comment on commercial mods just as we can the free ones. There should be no "free ride" for the commercial mods vs the free ones.

-vissa

[Jagged Tooth]

I'm happy for vBorg to show commercial hacks as long as they are shown in a different forum to all the awsome free ones .

[theodonnells]

Bad Idea! People want everything for free!And they will usually find it.So whats to stop another site popping up with the same hacks for free, who's going to check for copyright, whats to stop unscrupulous coders selling other peoples code!
Wait a minute if i could learn coding!!!!!!
Yes its a great idea im all for it...
Im off to learn to code and will release some really bad hacks very soon.