Fair play and Business

[DragonByte Tech]

Originally Posted by kh99

...but I guess I got confused because we're discussing who's been here longer, who has released more mods, pro vs. lite versions, who provides better support, etc, and I don't see how any of that has anything to do with the copyright mod.

Agreed, i'm not sure what any of this has to do with a copyright mod:

Originally Posted by Christos Teriakis

And because they talked for free time that I spent. Yes, they spent. But they're spending free times max 3 years ago. I'm spending my free time since October 2006 when I released my first mod. And believe me (in total) I have released more than them.

As for the given support. It's true that the old days I was loosing my patience very often and I was droping my mods to Graveyard. But last 3 years none mod left behind unsupported. Only for special reasons (eg if I gave it to someone else) I was stopping. But even in these cases, if you try to give a look at the threads of my old microSUPPORT and microCART you'll see that I gave support more often than the new author.

So as a final line. Goto my current mods and chekc the average responce time. In normal hours (08:00am-22:00pm GMT+3) the average response time is less than 1 hour. Everyday including weekends and holidays. Also try to count how many updates with new features I released in just one month. Never heart that other coders are doing it.

Especially

Originally Posted by Christos Teriakis

They release a version and then everything new, any new user request is marked as "PRO version". Go and check it. I'm not saying anything... you'll read what the users are saying there.

Which is just an out and out lie designed to make us look bad and as nothing to do with copyright.

Of course English is not Christos' first language, so if by "They" he was referring to some other coder i'd be interested to know who that was

Originally Posted by Christos Teriakis

I just replied to Iain on what other coders (included me) did about LITE/PRO versions. Somehow it was out off topic but as long as he asked it, I didn't like to appear that I ignored him.

Actually you brought it up (in the post I quoted above), I simply replied to you because your wording, accidental or not, was implying something completely false about DragonByte Tech and I felt compelled to correct this 'error'.

Iain

[nhawk]

I think the only way to get out of this off topic money vs no money discussion is to self police ourselves and just stop that discussion.

I also think that everyone can agree that a long list of copyrights on the main page for vB does not look good and isn't appealing to the owners/admins of sites. However, it is still up to the individual coder where they put their copyright (if any).

The extremely unfortunate part of where the copyright is placed is actually a moot point. We all know those copyrights are routinely removed by end users without regard to the effort a coder has placed in creating the add-on/mod.

[Christos Teriakis]

@Iain
------
Yes, my English is poor. Very poor. But I'm pround that even this low level English I teached them myself. 40-45 years ago where I was in high school and being a child of a 5 children family, there were no money for studying English. I learned English on the same time that I learned coding. I had the English book for programming, read it, then using my vocabulary I was trying to understand what on heck that "locate" means and then I was testing the code in my PC. That's why I'm pround. Because I got all my education just by reading books. Never studied more than hight school and not because I didn't wanted it.

So, as a lat step to drop the masks, and see if it's true what you wrote, that you can't modify the code to exclude the pages powered by my mods. Here is the code. As you can see it's just 4 lines of code. Check the validity of this code, then check (if your don't count my word), that my mods have nothing to do with other mods and/or vB forum engine, and finally add this code to you mod. If you really believe in fair play, you can do it.

I'm not placing my terms as you said. I'm just offering a solution in case that you believe in fair play, in case that you're really gentleman with the good meaning of these words which are English words using worldwide as standard for their meaning.

$restrictedpages = array('ads','adsusercp','adsmodcp','auctions','aucusercp','aucmodcp','reviews','revusercp','revmodcp');
if (!in_array(THIS_SCRIPT, $restrictedpages)
{
 .......show your copyright.....
}

This code will hides your copyright from my Classifieds, Auctions and Reviews pages. It will appears in all other pages.

--------------- Added [DATE]1370627702[/DATE] at [TIME]1370627702[/TIME] ---------------

Originally Posted by nhawk

The extremely unfortunate part of where the copyright is placed is actually a moot point. We all know those copyrights are routinely removed by end users without regard to the effort a coder has placed in creating the add-on/mod.

I can say that latelly things are goind better in vb.org in 2 ways:

1. Less users are removing the copyright
2. Much less users are rating your mod as Terrible before even finish your post. It was impossible to believe what happening a couple of years ago. Without any download you were founding a 1 star rating.

[DragonByte Tech]

Originally Posted by Christos Teriakis

@Iain
------
Yes, my English is poor. Very poor. But I'm pround that even this low level English I teached them myself. 40-45 years ago where I was in high school and being a child of a 5 children family, there were no money for studying English. I learned English on the same time that I learned coding. I had the English book for programming, read it, then using my vocabulary I was trying to understand what on heck that "locate" means and then I was testing the code in my PC. That's why I'm pround. Because I got all my education just by reading books. Never studied more than hight school and not because I didn't wanted it.

So, as a lat step to drop the masks, and see if it's true what you wrote, that you can't modify the code to exclude the pages powered by my mods. Here is the code. As you can see it's just 4 lines of code. Check the validity of this code, then check (if your don't count my word), that my mods have nothing to do with other mods and/or vB forum engine, and finally add this code to you mod. If you really believe in fair play, you can do it.

I'm not placing my terms as you said. I'm just offering a solution in case that you believe in fair play, in case that you're really gentleman with the good meaning of these words which are English words using worldwide as standard for their meaning.

$restrictedpages = array('ads','adsusercp','adsmodcp','auctions','aucusercp','aucmodcp','reviews','revusercp','revmodcp');
if (!in_array(THIS_SCRIPT, $restrictedpages)
{
 .......show your copyright.....
}

This code will hides your copyright from my Classifieds, Auctions and Reviews pages. It will appears in all other pages.

--------------- Added [DATE]1370627702[/DATE] at [TIME]1370627702[/TIME] ---------------



I can say that latelly things are goind better in vb.org in 2 ways:

1. Less users are removing the copyright
2. Much less users are rating your mod as Terrible before even finish your post. It was impossible to believe what happening a couple of years ago. Without any download you were founding a 1 star rating.

Words like "ads" and "reviews" could potentially cause that script to remove our copyright from many, MANY unintended pages, and could even cause issue with our OWN ad (and upcoming review) mod.

In addition we would have to put a script like that in all of our hundred or so mods. Then if another coder requested it, we would have to make a script for HIS mods as well, because it wouldn't be fair to only do it for YOUR mods.

Before long we would have scripts trying to cover dozens of mods having to be applied, tested and added to about a hundred mods.

Then we need to update that any time you, or someone else, makes a new mod. Which means editing the files and uploading the new files on about a hundred mods, on several sites.

All of this so one person, you, doesn't have to see our copyright, which the user CHOSE to have there, on a page generated by your mod.

That doesn't seem remotely proportional to me and it strikes me as an extremely unreasonable request. You are asking us to spend/risk a significant amount of time and money, not to improve our mods for the USERS or CUSTOMERS, but to improve them for YOU.

We would much rather take that time and effort and redirect it into continuing to make great, free mods for the users here on vBulletin.org, and i'm sure most people would agree that's the more reasonable course of action.

Iain

[Christos Teriakis]

Originally Posted by DragonByte Tech

Then if another coder requested it, we would have to make a script for HIS mods as well, because it wouldn't be fair to only do it for YOUR mods.

If another coder requests it, then you must start thinking deeper if this mod was really worth of releasing it. In anycase... I read carefully your opinion, I respect it, but let's give the other users the ability to share their own opinion. What counts for me, and what will makes me plan my next steps is depending on what the other users (and not you or your friends) will post here. I just offered a solution. Nothing more. What I want to make clear before closing the discussion with you, is something very simple. "I have nothing to loose". You're smart person that's why you're managing a big company, so you can easily get my meaning. Furthure more, as I seen in your last post in the mod's thread, you know a lot of Greek history. Hopefully you also know how Greeks reacts in similar issues.

Thank you for your time. As I said. Nothing against you (as a person), nothing against your company. But a lots against this mod.

[LLent]

What kind of thread is this why should it be coder against coder to prove a point weather right or wrong ..

i am sorry but until quite recently Chris i had no clue who the hell you really were or are .. but i have known dragonbyte for a lot of years and their proven track record speaks volumes i can go here at vb and at there site and the support is phenomenal..

what they put in there lite products is very close to a pro version again its all about the choices some mods i want more so i carry pro others the lite is more then what i need ..if ask the db team for something they always give you an answer and if its something they can do they do it ...

the copyright mod is a choice you either like it or dont put it in just like your classified mod you have members like it and have met some of there needs you also have a pro version called the grateful version but to me is same thing you are collecting money for compensation ...so the choice is install your mod or dont

you cant get any more clearer choices then that ...

i perfer dragonbyte mods over any other but that is my preference not to say i dont have any other mods on my site installed cause i do

so lets see the main theme of this thread is you dont like the copyright mod ...
well i dont like the color pink on my vesicle but they still produce pink ...

i dont like onions but they still grow them ... i think you get the picture

your right the cops didnt shackle me to come to this thread i did by my choice cause i feel you are in the wrong .. i get your feelings but there is not going to be any change cause of this thread ... you are going to go your way and db is going to go theirs ... i hope you choose not to continue this useless thread but is your choice

[nhawk]

OK now that I see what the hullabaloo is all about, I have to agree with Chris on this one.

DBTech's copyright should not appear on another Mod's pages. The way it is now, it does.

As an example, the DBTech copyright is appearing on my Advanced Application Form pages. DBTech has no influence over those and the copyright should not appear on those pages.

I'd suggest DBTech make some change to only display their copyright on the standard vB pages, or on the vB pages that are actually affected by their mods. That is a simple THIS_SCRIPT query as Chris posted, but using only vB script names. That way all other mods that set the THIS_SCRIPT constant will not display the DBTech copyright.

Other coders should not be burdened with finding a way to remove the DBTech copyright from the footer of their mods.

EDIT: The attached image shows what I mean. Neither the DBTech slider or the post thanks mod can be used on the page shown. The DBTech copyright should not appear there.

[kh99]

I'd have to agree with that as well. If it was just a matter of the copyrights showing up on standard vb pages that aren't affected by the mod, then while that's not completely correct, it doesn't bother me too much. But IMHO it's not right to have them show up when the entire page is generated by another mod. It seems like the right thing to do would be for DBTech to do something about it.

ETA: By the way, this is just my personal opinion.

[nhawk]

LOL... you're a moderator... you're not allowed personal opinions. (jk)

[kh99]

lol, yeah. The fact is that unless I'm saying something like "you're breaking the rules" then I always feel like I'm just speaking for myself, but I'm afraid it doesn't always come across that way.