Difficulties hiring a vb coder...

[legionofangels]

Ted,

lol, I would never pay that much in my entire life. I'd rather take college courses to learn to do the same thing myself than pay that much. Oh...you probably could actually at that insanely ridiculous rate.

I am a Sales Executive for a Corporation, I know big whoop is the reaction of many to that comment. But I know how the game works, because I see it on every job we contract. Ok, job costs $15,000.00 USD, Builder Payout is $3000.00 which equates to like 9 days building time, "builder you have 9 days to do the job, if you take longer you make less money, if you get it done earlier you make more." Of course our high standards of excellence in construction have to be applied to ensure customer satisfaction. But I understand what you're saying.

Still, an hourly rate should only be applied IF the coder that has taken the job has shown progress. If the coder knows nothing of what they are doing, it isn't the buyer's job to pay for them to "trial & error" to figure out the code. Either know what your doing, or don't act like it and take a job you cannot do. That makes it fair to the buyer, which many coders I don't think want to accept. You want to be paid no matter what, and at the same time, if the buyer ends up with nothing....NOT due to malice, but due to "coder unable to complete'' they've wasted there money...yet the coder is still paid.

That's why I think people should be thorough about what they want, and a coder should either have a good working concept of how to complete the project, or don't estimate on it. Don't waste buyers time.

Thank you,

LoA

_ P.S. I don't do design work for example, not because I can't or am not skilled, it's because I don't want to as my level of standard for my own graphics is extremely high. But I wouldn't charge ridiculous prices unless I could produce extremely high quality graphics within mere hours or minutes of accepting a job.

Like I said, speed and a high price can work at the same time. Slow and high hourly rate = useless and painful to the consumer.

[DieselMinded]

I have my Coder Isnt Cheap $50-$75 Per Hour but he does good Work

[Ted S]

Originally Posted by legionofangels

I am a Sales Executive for a Corporation, I know big whoop is the reaction of many to that comment. But I know how the game works, because I see it on every job we contract. Ok, job costs $15,000.00 USD, Builder Payout is $3000.00 which equates to like 9 days building time, "builder you have 9 days to do the job, if you take longer you make less money, if you get it done earlier you make more." Of course our high standards of excellence in construction have to be applied to ensure customer satisfaction. But I understand what you're saying.

You and I probably work in a very similar world so no, I don't say big whoop, I say where's my next nice lunch meeting.

I think we agree for the most part... coders should deliver on time, work efficiently and come close to their estimates. Hourly rates allow for more accurate billing but if nothing is allowed to be changed (or in the case of a small project of just a few hours), a fixed estimate makes perfect sense too. If the coder wants a higher rate, well, that's up to the client to decide and neither neither here nor there.

Paying people to learn isn't ok... paying them for more quality, thoroughness and a better system is however perfectly acceptable (there's more to code than speed... sometimes you can be fast and write well, sometimes it takes more time to minimize impact and be something that can be built upon in the future).

No coder should be paid if they don't deliver unless the client did something (i.e. stopped making scheduled payments) to stop them. A contract is an equal exchange... I pay my coder, they deliver. Paying parts upfront is just a means of insuring I'm not a complete flake... not to give them money to do half a project, they don't finish, I will come after them.

My point was simply that people hiring out should no more expect to get great work for pennies than coders should expect to get open ended projects that don't have deadlines and can be overcharged.

The best way to insure things work out is to fully outline needs. In a smaller project (under a few thousand) this generally means mocking up the changes, defining any functionality not showable in mockups and writing down expectations to be reviewed. For anything mid or large sized, a more formal design process can be applied but in either case, requirements are the key to success. If they're not there, they can't be met and if they are there, they must be met. Anything else and one side has failed to do its job.

I should add... most of the engagements I took back in my consulting days were based on some sort of base with a performance incentive/ earnings split for results. Now I'll grant that I'm a marketing professional who codes here and there but for me and my clients it worked out much better than paying me by the hour and only getting my expertise until the hour ended. Under this scenario it was in my interest to meet and exceed requirements plus add more input in features, functionality and design to insure success.

[Dean C]

End of the day you get what you pay for. I'd choose someone who's been working with vB for years and charges $50/hr than someone who's only been doing it a year and charges $15. Hell I wouldn't even get out of bed for $15 an hour

[Alfa1]

There are many countries where $15 an hour is a very good pay and $200 is a months pay.
And I am afraid that with the way the USD is going, the US will be a good place to find cheap rate and thus outsource to in the near future.

[Zachariah]

Originally Posted by crkgb

This is a General vBulletin Discussions forum, so I think it is the most suitable place for this topic.

Is it only me, or someone else experienced/experiences difficulties hiring a vb coder?

Multiple times tried to post various mod requests in the "Paid Services" area. And to no success.

I would greatly appreciate if experienced people point me in the right direction.

Thank you.

It's hard to get a hold of people that are not wraped up in multi projects.

You also have many browsing habbits of people.
EX: I personly have went into the "Paid Services" forum 2 times since I have been on the site. (on a search)

[iogames]

Originally Posted by Ted S

The best way to insure things work out is to fully outline needs. In a smaller project (under a few thousand) this generally means mocking up the changes, defining any functionality not showable in mockups and writing down expectations to be reviewed. For anything mid or large sized, a more formal design process can be applied but in either case, requirements are the key to success. If they're not there, they can't be met and if they are there, they must be met. Anything else and one side has failed to do its job.

Originally Posted by Dean C

End of the day you get what you pay for. I'd choose someone who's been working with vB for years and charges $50/hr than someone who's only been doing it a year and charges $15. Hell I wouldn't even get out of bed for $15 an hour

I will gladly pay those 'few thousands' to someone to code me a Photoshop, a Windows Vista, or a Norton Suite, but I'm realistic a group of 5 or 20 can't do so, thus I will keep going to the store to buy those solutions for just hundreds and I will keep recommending to my clients & friends to chose same method. [don't tell me MySpace have quality, and still they have millions]

But returning to reality, we humans live generally in a tight budget and we business men need to learn how to do much from a little, and I don't recommend to any startup to invest a few thousands

[Boofo]

I think you all are crazy for paying that kind of money for any coder to code something. I can think of a lot more places I can use that money that gambling on human instincts, which usually are greedy and self-serving. You are right that you get what you pay for, but that can work with the higher priced coders as well as the cheaper ones. I don't need any hack bad enough to pay the kind of money you all are talking.

[Ted S]

Originally Posted by Boofo

I think you all are crazy for paying that kind of money for any coder to code something. I can think of a lot more places I can use that money that gambling on human instincts, which usually are greedy and self-serving. You are right that you get what you pay for, but that can work with the higher priced coders as well as the cheaper ones. I don't need any hack bad enough to pay the kind of money you all are talking.

Have you ever worked on or run a site for profit and/or as a business?

[iogames]

Originally Posted by Ted S

Have you ever worked on or run a site for profit and/or as a business?

I've offered Him the CEO chair and full control and he said: 'I just do it for Love's sake'