Automatic install when download?

[hambil]

Originally Posted by Brad

Good old text and it's ability to convey the wrong meaning. I'm not going to meet you halfway because I don't agree with your position

I didn't intend to get pissy either. But I never asked you to agree with my position. I asked you to understand that I and many others feel differently than you, and I said I understood your point of view even if I didn't agree with it. You refused to do the same, thus making me get 'pissy'.

It also allowed end users to track which modifications they were using via the user cp.

Hack authors are also end users. You also referred to 'end users' in a previous post. We dont' work for you, we don't work for vBulletin, and we pay our money to license this product and donate our time and skills on this site. We are very much end users. Thinking of us any other way is what caused a near rebellion on this site last year.

[Luky]

Okay okay guys! Cool down, please dont argue! Argue leads to hate and hate leads to emo! :O Dont make me go chuck norris on you two!

[Chris M]

Chuck norris? Pffh... The Hoff will pwn Chuck

Chris

[hambil]

All of that still doesn't change the fact that installs are only accepted from logged in users. If you code the 'call home' in php it doesn't magically solve this problem. You'd still have to prompt for log-in if you wanted it to work everytime. If it doesn't work everytime then it's useless by nature and not worth doing in the first place. Why can't you understand this?

Because it's an excuse. So what if installs are only accepted from a logged in user? That just means the org has coded it that way. I do version checks without logging in. I can pull rss without logging in. The callhome that vb already has in the product doesn't require I log in. You put a button on a page, and since the logical assumption is that people must show up to push said button it is coded for them to need to be logged in. That doesn't mean it's the only possible way it can be done - it just means that is the way it is currently done.

And again, much of this problem goes away if you stop arbitrarily tying install numbers to people wanting support and update emails. You're overloading the function.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by hambil

Because it's an excuse. So what if installs are only accepted from a logged in user? That just means the org has coded it that way. I do version checks without logging in. I can pull rss without logging in.

It happens to be coded that way for a very good reason. Version checking and RSS feeds do not keep a count - if no check on the 'installer' was done than you could just keep on sending "installed" notifications to mods (including your own) and watch the install count shoot through the roof (not to mention how would the system know where to send update e-mails to).

As for members/vb licence - you seem to be under the mistaken impression that we know members licence number - we don't, we have no knowledge of members licence or customer number. If you read the messages about how to show up as licensed here, you will clearly note that the 'link' used is e-mail address.

[hambil]

Originally Posted by Paul M

It happens to be coded that way for a very good reason. Version checking and RSS feeds do not keep a count - if no check on the 'installer' was done than you could just keep on sending "installed" notifications to mods (including your own) and watch the install count shoot through the roof (not to mention how would the system know where to send update e-mails to).

It would be simple to only allow one install per mod per user - you don't need to log in for that. As you state below, there is a link - in this case e-mail address. I said in my original post:

Or whatever way you want to secure it, if not vblicense. That's just an example.

So let's not get hung up on the vb license - email works fine too. Or half a dozen other ways I can think of. Will it take a little bit of thought and design to insure it is secure (or as secure as anything else ever is) - yes, but that doesn't make it impossible, not by a long a shot.

And worse case, if a login is required, it certainly doesn't need to be interactive and have a login box. I enter my account and password one time only for my email, and I can pop and smtp for years without ever entering it again, because authentication is being done without my need to interact.

[Luky]

Originally Posted by Chris M

Chuck norris? Pffh... The Hoff will pwn Chuck

Chris

And the Jay (me) will pwn the Hoff!

[Brad]

It would be simple to only allow one install per mod per user - you don't need to log in for that.

Requiring log-in is the only safe way to check that the user is indeed valid. How are the supposed to check for your licensed status if you're not logged in? How are they supposed to make sure multiple installs are not sent to modifications? You do realize that if it was 'open' I could place a bit of code in an endless loop and nock this server offline while also ending up with one hell of an install count, right?

Are you suggesting they start checking your ip address upon installation from the admincp and keeping a database of them here? Do you have any idea how much work all of this is going to be (no matter what data is used)!? Even after all that work it'll be no where near as secure as the current way is...that's why they require log-in...it's easy and reliable security.

So let's not get hung up on the vb license - email works fine too. Or half a dozen other ways I can think of. Will it take a little bit of thought and design to insure it is secure (or as secure as anything else ever is) - yes, but that doesn't make it impossible, not by a long a shot.

So now you want my vB.org e-mail address sitting in my personal forums database? How exactly is this any better than having to log-in with my username and password (which I've already said would be highly annoying as well). Even if it wasn't my e-mail address...say it was some random code from my profile here. I still don't want to remember and enter that damn thing every time I install a hack.

And worse case, if a login is required, it certainly doesn't need to be interactive and have a login box. I enter my account and password one time only for my email, and I can pop and smtp for years without ever entering it again, because authentication is being done without my need to interact.

It still requires a prompt the one time (for you at least), and most smart users don't leave username and passwords hanging around forever like that. You're still going to annoy a ton of people with such a system even if there is some way to 'by-pass' the log-in prompt every time.

Aside from that what goes on in my admincp is none of your business, nor is it any of the staff's business. If they do put such a system in place that is fine by me...I'll just rip the damn thing out of the source code. I feel for the rest of your that don't know how to do that though, because I'm sure the mod author's are going to demand that such instructions are not posted for fear of yet again losing install counts.

[hambil]

Originally Posted by Brad

So now you want my vB.org e-mail address sitting in my personal forums database?

Are you suggesting that your personal forum database isn't secure? If so, then vb should really let us know because I've got other personal data in my forum database I'd rather be secure - and not just my own.

It still requires a prompt the one time (for you at least), and most smart users don't leave username and passwords hanging around forever like that. You're still going to annoy a ton of people with such a system even if there is some way to 'by-pass' the log-in prompt every time.

Yeah, people would get annoyed and stop using something if they had to log in now and then. Oh, wait, that's how forum software itself works. :erm:

[Paul M]

I really don't know what the final part of you post is trying to imply, but Brad is no longer on the Staff through personal choice, nothing else. Please keep any further personal remarks about other members to yourself.