Regarding the vBHosting Hack

[Velocd]

The name of this hack is ambigiuous. When you imply hosting and vBulltin in the title, it gives the impression as if you were allowing others the ability to host their own vBs; clearly against the license. With such a title, this hack asked for Jelsoft's attention.

I've never heard of this hack until I read parts of this thread, and I'm not 100% sure as to how it works. When you say sub-forums, I assume you mean categories on your forums that you allow moderators to control? Certainly not an actual subforum--meaning sub-vBulletin system, for that obviously voids the license.

In the former case, I see nothing wrong with the hack, but I know not of all the details and Jelsoft's justifications. (nor do I really care about this whole argument since the hack itself is unappealing to me, but it's something to read I guess).

[Wayne Luke]

Originally Posted by Velocd

Certainly not an actual subforum--meaning sub-vBulletin system, for that obviously voids the license.

Actually, this is exactly what the hack does. It allows every person on a site running this to create their own sub-community with a unique look and feel, control over their members, multiple forums and so forth.

It is a lot more than simply creating a forum on an installation.

[SpeedStreet]

Originally Posted by trafix

YES! The original concern is that the hack requires another hack to install it (not the HTL) .... and did not include txt install instructions ... this is still an issue regarding the HTL

No, you are confusing two issues.

One is an issue with vBulletin.org policies
One is an issue with JelSoft's license.

This hack (I have it and have been testing it) simply creates a new Forum within your existing forum. It uses the same db, same php files...same everything.

When you go into your admincp, the new forum appears just like all the rest.

[SpeedStreet]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

Actually, this is exactly what the hack does. It allows every person on a site running this to create their own sub-community with a unique look and feel, control over their members, multiple forums and so forth.

It is a lot more than simply creating a forum on an installation.

I think you need to check your facts.

It merely automates processes already existing in the vBulletin software.

Look and feel? This is accomplished by creating a child style, and giving the moderator the abililty to modify it. The only really neat feature is the ability to upload your own buttons.

Control over their members? Not quite. Members still have to register with the same domain and website. Members come from the same exact database as the rest of the site. The only option is the ability to manipulate the user mask of the forum the moderator is in charge of, effectively being able to ban them from that specific forum.

There have still been alot of accusations, but there has still been no valid reason for Jelsoft to ban this hack. If you are unwilling to read my previous posts where I made my points, then perhaps this arguement is moot.

I'm holding back one very critical and possibly damaging point concerning the licensing agreement. I'm very interested to hear an official statement from Jelsoft before I continue any further.

[Velocd]

Actually, this is exactly what the hack does. It allows every person on a site running this to create their own sub-community with a unique look and feel, control over their members, multiple forums and so forth.

It is a lot more than simply creating a forum on an installation.

Hmm, that certainly shifts my judgement.

Your vBulletin license is applicable to one installation of vBulletin under your identity, and if you're allowing others to replicate your vBulletin under their name, it violates the policy of having a vBulletin without having a license. If you say the user is using your license, then that violates the rule where the installed vBulletin pertains to only the purchaser of the license.

Those of you with complaints of how having multiple administrators is in violation to the license--well, it isn't, because there is only 1 vBulletin in question there. When you create more than 1 vBulletin with unlicensed administrators, then things are in obvious concern.

The main argument provided against Jelsoft seems to be that this hack doesn't cross any boundaries, and isn't a "whole" vBulletin, but simply utilizies a portion.

To what significance is this portion in regard to vBulletin as a whole?

Well, this hack clearly seems to perform the principle feature of vBulletin--a system for creating and managing forums.

In this affect it goes against the license.

[Stadler]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

Actually, this is exactly what the hack does. It allows every person on a site running this to create their own sub-community with a unique look and feel, control over their members, multiple forums and so forth.

It is a lot more than simply creating a forum on an installation.

And what would happen, if this is extremely limited? e. g. only one forum/subforum/whatever per topic, only, chosen persons to manage them and so on? There won't be any automation then, compared to rapidforum.com, EZboard & Co. where everyone could just create a forum in no time ...

[twoseven]

Originally Posted by Velocd

Those of you with complaints of how having multiple administrators is in violation to the license--well, it isn't, because there is only 1 vBulletin in question there. When you create more than 1 vBulletin with unlicensed administrators, then things are in obvious concern.

well from what i've seen there is still 1 database/vbull install and this is the same as the administrator(s) issue. the new forum is a subsection of the forum just giving the given catagory more specialization/automation so if a forum user sees the need it can be added with admin either accepting or deneying it. this whole thing has been beat to death already with this much discussion from us alone is either a good or bad sign.
speed street i'm glad you understand the legalities maybe vb will higher you to redefine their agreement
1 week timeframe is long enough for this to die and them sweep the hack under the rug just my opinion there

[SpeedStreet]

Originally Posted by Velocd

Hmm, that certainly shifts my judgement.

Your vBulletin license is applicable to one installation of vBulletin under your identity, and if you're allowing others to replicate your vBulletin under their name, it violates the policy of having a vBulletin without having a license. If you say the user is using your license, then that violates the rule where the installed vBulletin pertains to only the purchaser of the license.

Those of you with complaints of how having multiple administrators is in violation to the license--well, it isn't, because there is only 1 vBulletin in question there. When you create more than 1 vBulletin with unlicensed administrators, then things are in obvious concern.

The main argument provided against Jelsoft seems to be that this hack doesn't cross any boundaries, and isn't a "whole" vBulletin, but simply utilizies a portion.

To what significance is this portion in regard to vBulletin as a whole?

Well, this hack clearly seems to perform the principle feature of vBulletin--a system for creating and managing forums.

In this affect it goes against the license.

To that effect, than any subforum you create and allow someone else to run with you is in direct violation.

Without testing the hack, it is impossible for you to make any type of judgement or informed opinion. The hack adds additional tables ot the database in order to allow for additional functionality for categories (also known as subforums). You are not appointing new administrators, merely enabling a moderator to have additional control over how the content is displayed in the forum areas of their responsibility.

The problem here is obviously the logistics of the naming convention being used

A vbHost Admin = A vB Moderator
A vbHost Forum = A vB SubForum
A vbHost Style = A vB child style
A vbHost Ban = a vB Access Mask
A vbHost User = an existing vB User
A vBHost Forum Creation Request = A vB Request for additional content which that person is offering to lead.

I run a 501c3 charity. Part of my site deals with locations throughout the world. The subforums in question are only created when there is a justification for them. Essentially, these forums are run by the Moderators appointed to govern them, and I give them the choice as to how they want their subcategories they want. At the current time, they PM me their requests, and I research whether or not it is a prudent idea.

According to the inferences in this thread, I am in direct violation of the license agreement for what would be considered User Demand/Driven Content.

You can't have it both ways. Either I am in the wrong, or vBHosting is in the right.

[SpeedStreet]

My concern is that even though I am approaching this in a benign and innocent fashion, I can definitely see a surge of even more final fantasy boards spawning off additional boards because people don't understand the ramifications. We'll have hundreds of boards throughout the vBLand with 8,000 forums and 400 posts because every jerkass in the world will want to rule their own little section.

Given the choice between governance and self-reliance, the human tendency is to want to go your own way.

That being said, I am thoroughly concerned about the issues that the License Agreement poses. There is not enough verbiage to prohibit this type of behavior, and I would be more than happy to sit down with the group and analyze the loopholes. I understand Jelsoft's desire to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) but the possibility of litigation has been left wide open on several accounts.

I strongly urge GameCrash to go back to the drawing board and rework this hack to ensure that only limited users have access to forum creation. I think that the backend for forum manipulation is very powerful, and could be salvaged as a tremendous tool for all vBulletin users in the future.

I would like to hear from Jelsoft what they think a good comprimise would be. Thus far, this is the only way Moderators are able to add functionality to their parts of the board without being given explicit admin access.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally Posted by SpeedStreet

I run a 501c3 charity. Part of my site deals with locations throughout the world. The subforums in question are only created when there is a justification for them. Essentially, these forums are run by the Moderators appointed to govern them, and I give them the choice as to how they want their subcategories they want. At the current time, they PM me their requests, and I research whether or not it is a prudent idea.

If these subforums are for the purposes of your international organization then you are not against the license agreement. If however you are creating forums for additional organizations and therefore sub-licensing vBulletin, then you are violating the license.

That is where the line is drawn. If this hack required people to be staff of the organization through moderator positions or administrator appointments, then there would be nothing wrong with it because it is a single installation on a single domain with a single organization and is not sub-licensing the software. However since it allows any registrant to in effect create their own community with unlimited control of how many forums, the look and feel of the forum, links back to their independant website and control over who can post and not post in the forum (via banning privileges), it violates the sub-licensing portion of the licensing agreement. And before you state that I should look at the hack and install it, I have it installed and I have looked at the code and I know exactly what it does.

It allows vBulletin License holder to issue defacto sub-licenses so that others can use the software. Even has a place where you can state your terms and conditions of their use of a license that a License holder has no right to grant..