Can Trail & Cloud Users Download Modifications/View Code?

[akz645]

Originally Posted by ozzy47

Ok, just get them from wares sites then, but ask them on that site when you get hacked from installing the mod.

Another reason that supports vbulletin having such a disclaimer.

If somebody was desperate for that mod, that's a risk they'd have to take if they wanted to obtain the product for free (assuming that's the only way to obtain the product).
I've actually compared warez downloads to downloads from here, I haven't found a single product that's been interfered with at all. Although my sample size is fairly small, as I don't need to visit warez website and therefore it's a waste of my time to be checking anymore than I have already done so.

[Lynne]

We would never have that sort of disclaimer here. I think every one of us that has ever run, or helped to run, this site (and we are run by volunteers) has released mods. We wouldn't release our mods if we could never pull them when we wanted to. Some disclaimer is just not going to happen here.

[TheLastSuperman]

I believe Ozzy summed up what I would have said before I could even attempt it i.e. no use for cloud users as they can't use them and if using a trial that will expire whats the point? I mean to test sure but why go through all that trouble instead of simply asking or calling them to inquire directly? If they refer you to vbulletin.org on the phone for modifications and customization questions then ask here.

There are two pre-sales forums for use, one on vbulletin.com and a different one on vbulletin.org:
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...ales-questions
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=26

The reason two exist, is so that you can ask generic pre-sales questions on vbulletin.com, if you wish to modify your site or do something outside the box then its actually better to ask here, so that is why there is similarly named forums yet each has different threads and replies. This site is every vBulletin customers resource/tool so even if you can't download modifications as a cloud or trial user the two forums you require are open.

[BirdOPrey5]

Originally Posted by akz645

http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vb4-trial/
1) How long does trail last?

VB4 Trial is 24 hours. VB5 trial is 72 hours.

2) Once the trail period is over, what happens?

It gets deleted.

3) Can they ask for an extension?

You can ask but we can't always accommodate. You can always make a new trial though once your old one expires.

4) Can trail users download mods?
5) Can trail users view codes?

No to both.

For 4 and 5: I think they should be allowed to do both, if they can't already.

Because the source code is visible any restrictions put in place for a trial/demo could be easily circumvented so there will never see VB4 or VB5 as a trial you can download. The trial will only be available on VB's demo servers.

Maybe they should pay a small fee to download mods for X days/ however long their trail version has left? I don't think they should be allowed to get support/post on the forum though, aside from the pre-sale section & wherever else unlicensed members can currently post on this website.
If they can't legitimately download mods without having to pay the full fee, they're pretty much forced to use warez websites if they want to test a mod. I've also seen warez sites charge (premium) to download mods and to get priority support for somebody else to download for them.

The fee to download mods is to purchase a vBulletin license. If you don't have a license you have no business downloading mods. Selling a low price way to get mods only encourages piracy of the main product.

http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vbulletin-cloud/
I'd like to ask about vbulletin cloud too.
3) Can you install mods on that?
4) Are you given a FTP account?

You cannot install mods. You do not get an FTP account. See a feature comparison: http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vbcloud-features

Can't vbulletin make a disclaimer, saying whatever mods is posted on this website, will remain on this website indefinitely.
Therefore members who post modifications have to agree to those terms?
Hence vbulletin would have the right to never remove modifications that have been posted, if they don't want to.

P.S: Really sorry if this question has been asked before.
I tried searching but I couldn't find the answer to all these questions and I'm unsure what your latest terms and conditions are on this matter.

You are free to your opinion, but it isn't going to happen here.

Originally Posted by ozzy47

There would be no reason to let cloud users access to mods, as they can not use them anyway.

You know I'm not sure if they can or not. There is some reason to have access, I have directed vBCloud customers here to get BB Codes and look at template edits. I hope they do have access- no one ever wrote back saying they couldn't see what I told them to look at.

Originally Posted by ozzy47

But that is a mute point. The author of the mod owns the code, and shares it here freely. If they no longer want it available on here, that is their decision. No one has their right to publish their content without consent.

The phrase is "a moot point."

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by akz645

They wouldn't be publishing it.
They'd only be maintaining it/ not allowing you to remove it.
You as the owner would be the one who has published it, agreeing to the terms and conditions.

Under UK or US law, can you point me to a law that states otherwise?

There is no need to point to anything.
No such conditions will ever be implemented.

If someone asks for their mod to be removed, we will remove it. There is nothing more to discuss on this.

Originally Posted by akz645

4) Can trail users download mods?
5) Can trail users view codes?
For 4 and 5: I think they should be allowed to do both, if they can't already.

You cannot do either, and thats not going to change either.

[akz645]

First and foremost, I will respect Paul M wishes to no longer discuss the point about that disclaimer.
Everything below is me just discussing about trail/cloud and why I believe there should be more solutions to download/install mods.

I do not want to offend any of you. I just want to help vbulletin by sharing my own opinion.
If the employees think my ideas are not good for business, so be it. I thought it would be better to express my opinion, than to not say anything at all
I'd also like to thank everybody who has replied back to me & all those who will continue to do so. Whether you disagree or not with my opinion, that's absolutely fine. It's better to have somebody reply back, then nobody at all

Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5

...

Thank you for going through all the points

I didn't know trial only lasts 24 hours, I thought it would last a week at minimum.
I believe a week is the ideal amount of time for testing purposes. Not too long, not too short.


I understand that allowing users to use a FTP account and to download/install mods is a security risk to all those who use a cloud server.
But still...
All those who have paid for cloud, perhaps they could gain access to another cloud server, where they can test out mods? Or trail users have to pay, if they want access to that cloud server to try out mods?
As there is no such a service, I believe vbulletin is losing out on making money.

This limits potential customers the chance to test. As a customer myself, I wanted to buy cloud to test out mods, but my friend told me this wasn't possible.
I like to test out mods first hand. To see whether it works on a particular skin and whether or not it clashes with another mod. There is no way to know for certain whether a mod will or will not work, without paying for the full vbulletin licence based on all I've read so far. Hence the only other way a potential customer can find out is if they know somebody else who has a licence or obtain the product and mods from piracy.

If it turns out the mod doesn't work and that's the only reason they're buying vbulletin over xenforo (as an example), I can understand why customers would be unhappy. Hence the user may end up selling his licence.
From what I've seen, all vbulletin sites that have gone on to be successful have used at least 1 mod that wasn't in the core product. I'm not going to list all the reasons for the significance of mods, as I'm sure you're all aware. That's why I believe it's a key selling point for vbulletin over other boards at this moment in time and therefore another way to test out mods should be possible.

Yeah I'm probably wasting my time giving out solutions. But as I see it, vbulletin is almost forcing genuine customers to try out vbulletin through piracy first...

[TheLastSuperman]

There are many people with great ideas, we all have them but the company will only implement what they wish depending on the direction the company wants to take with the software, if making a change to notify someone is not required then why waste time? If the system has worked fine for years with only a handful of threads similar to this one asking why or why not something is done then its fine and does not need updating.

You're not wasting time giving out solutions, you truly didn't give any... not saying that smart but the system/setup is fine as-is, these ideas of yours are just that, ideas and while you deem them worthy enough to warrant change, that is your justification as to why its required not the companies. Genuine customers are the type of people who would never download and install illegal/nulled software to begin with - they would genuinely pay for it, genuinely test out mods, and genuinely enjoy the support provided on vbulletin.com and here on .org that they genuinely paid to access. Did I say Genuinely? Genuinely pay for something and you can genuinely enjoy it without shame!

[BirdOPrey5]

Whoever owns a vBulletin license can also install a second "test" copy for which they can use to test mods or other things. This copy just needs to be blocked from the public- most often accomplished with an .htaccess password.

So any license holder can create their test copy and give access to a developer or someone they know interested in creating or testing mods on it. There is no need to pay for a 2nd account.

[akz645]

Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman

If the system has worked fine for years with only a handful of threads similar to this one asking why or why not something is done then its fine and does not need updating.

If it ain't broke, why fix it. I can definitely understand why you and others would think that way and that might be the most beneficial mindset to have for this business.

If this isn't too much trouble, can you/another mod make a poll, asking only unlicenced members to vote?
The question being something like:
- If trail was extended to 1 week & you could download mods during that time, would that temp you into buying our product more than our current system?
You could expand on that question in the first post and/or change that question to something similar. As you'd need to explain what your current system/stance is.
You don't have to make that poll and vbulletin staff certainly do not have to use it's result to determine what they'd do. I just think it would be better to make a poll asking users without vbulletin licence than not asking at all.
It can potentially make vbulletin more money, but if they're content as is, then that's their choice Maybe new staff in the future may agree with me, if nobody does now.
If they think it will be bad for business, then that's fine too. If that is the case, I would like to know why they think it would be bad for business though.

Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman

You're not wasting time giving out solutions, you truly didn't give any... not saying that smart but the system/setup is fine as-is, these ideas of yours are just that, ideas and while you deem them worthy enough to warrant change, that is your justification as to why its required not the companies.

Now that I think about it, using the word solution does sound quite pompous :erm:. So yeah, Solution probably wasn't the best word to use. I apologise.
Yes you're right, they're just ideas. In fact, my ideas may be the opposite of a solution.

Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman

Genuine customers are the type of people who would never download and install illegal/nulled software to begin with - they would genuinely pay for it, genuinely test out mods, and genuinely enjoy the support provided on vbulletin.com and here on .org that they genuinely paid to access. Did I say Genuinely? Genuinely pay for something and you can genuinely enjoy it without shame!

I think you're using the word genuine and loyal customers synonymously.
I'm referring to potential customers. So users who would like to/want to test first before they become full customers (genuine) by purchasing a vbulletin licence.
Existing customers don't really need to download free pirated mods, as they can just get them for free here.

How is a 'potential' customer supposed to know whether or not the product is to their liking? How exactly will they know if a mod works or not?
As I stated before, you can't truly know if the mod will work on not, without testing out yourself. What if they buy a licence and then install the mods but it doesn't work out? Additionally, lets say they don't get any support to have it fixed. Should they still be happy? If that was their only reason for buying this board over another, wouldn't they have wasted money?

What if they do not know anybody who owns a vbulletin licence to allow them to test, on a test forum?
The only way for them to test out your product & mods before actually purchasing the full product is through piracy- I don't think that's very good. Potential customers are not loyal to you, they simply want to test before purchase, which I don't believe makes them bad people. The shame will be very minimal, if they're only doing so for testing reasons and do not intend to use any nulled product for too long.
If they like the product and mods, they'll buy it. If not, they won't. I guess another counter argument you could say to my idea is that allowing users to thoroughly test vbulletin and mods wouldn't be good for business. Although I have no idea whether or not that would be true.

Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5

Whoever owns a vBulletin license can also install a second "test" copy for which they can use to test mods or other things. This copy just needs to be blocked from the public- most often accomplished with an .htaccess password.

So any license holder can create their test copy and give access to a developer or someone they know interested in creating or testing mods on it. There is no need to pay for a 2nd account.

Yes I am aware of that, as that's precisely what I did (which I stated earlier)
However, I don't think the vast majority of unlicensed users would be able to access such a thing, as they'd need to know somebody with a vbulletin licence (as I've mentioned before).
This method isn't very ideal though because it requires constantly nagging the licence owner to download X mod. Also I don't think the licence owner would allow one of their limited email slots to be given to somebody they don't know too much and/or access to their FTP for the user to upload mods themselves.

[TheLastSuperman]

I was using the word genuine in context per say more than you perceived, you can't be genuine if you're "fake" is how I meant it. People can certainly change however to me not in the short amount of time it would take for one to realize he/she should be paying for something instead of using it for free continuing to throw caution to the wind simply running around going "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" .

If the site owner adds their friends email to the priority support sites checkboxes in their settings via the members area, then they can login here and download all the mods they want, without bugging the actual license owner - why yes, you can view and download attachments if you're listed on their account.