Automatic install when download?

[TheHeartSmasher]

I don't want to have to go uncheck installed for something I have downloaded and not actually installed. Some of the modifications are not what was expected before download or may conflict with something that has already been done, but could only be found out by downloading the file and testing it on a test site.

[hambil]

Originally Posted by TheHeartSmasher

I don't want to have to go uncheck installed for something I have downloaded and not actually installed. Some of the modifications are not what was expected before download or may conflict with something that has already been done, but could only be found out by downloading the file and testing it on a test site.

Yeah, download != install. However, install == install. And a callhome would handle updating 'installed' on both install and uninstall. It would work very much like the already exiting version check and product urls.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/misc.php?do=product&sa=install&pid=xxxxxx&vblicense=xyz
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/misc.php?do=product&sa=uninstall&pid=xxxxxx&vblicense=xyz

Or whatever way you want to secure it, if not vblicense. That's just an example. vBulletin itself already does this for tracking it's own installs, so I really just don't get the flap over having a centralized way for hack authors to do the same.

[DrewM]

Originally Posted by hambil

Yeah, download != install. However, install == install. And a callhome would handle updating 'installed' on both install and uninstall. It would work very much like the already exiting version check and product urls.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/misc.php?do=product&sa=install&pid=xxxxxx&vblicense=xyz
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/misc.php?do=product&sa=uninstall&pid=xxxxxx&vblicense=xyz

Or whatever way you want to secure it, if not vblicense. That's just an example. vBulletin itself already does this for tracking it's own installs, so I really just don't get the flap over having a centralized way for hack authors to do the same.

the urls was some thing that I think is a good idea.

[Luky]

Originally Posted by Brad

Does any application auto install itself on your computer (aside from malware and crapware) when you download it?

There is your answer.

Aside from that I shouldn't have to delete items from my install list everytime I download something. Unlike most people here I download and read the code before I even consider installation. I also install stuff for other people upon request...such modifications would be useless if they're sitting in my install list.

What it really comes down to is the fact that a lot of people here are worried about some title under their user name. If you can't deal with not getting enough 'clicks' you might want to think about why you release stuff here in the first place. They are just numbers...and if I could I'd had all the install counts for my hacks set to zero just to prove my point.

But that is different, you can just download and install the files from here without accually marking it as installed where as on your computer, you cannot use the application without running the installer unless you wish to waste your time and unpack it then install it manually, which is just stupid.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Luky

But that is different, you can just download and install the files from here without accually marking it as installed where as on your computer, you cannot use the application without running the installer unless you wish to waste your time and unpack it then install it manually, which is just stupid.

It is the same..unless the application you downloaded is reporting back to another server. In other words when you install "Joe's screensaver manager" it doesn't tell Joe you installed it and even if it tried to you could always yank the cable from your computer to prevent it from doing so (unless he's evil an requires and internet connection before allowing you to use it). Aside from that you missed the point....

Anyway who cares if I click install or not? That's my business not yours. For example why should I install my own modifications? I don't need to know about updates and I don't care to have them crowding my list in the usercp. The only reason I do click install for my own modifications is so I can make sure the update e-mails get sent when I do send them.

What I'm saying is this basically; Anyone that needs the features that the install button provides is going to click it anyway. So why bother with forcing the rest of us to click uninstall all of the time just so a few people get a better user title?

Yeah, download != install. However, install == install. And a callhome would handle updating 'installed' on both install and uninstall. It would work very much like the already exiting version check and product urls.

I'll tell you why a call home doesn't work and why the old staff decided not to allow it. We thought it was a nice idea to be honest but people were abusing it. I won't name names but many people where using it in a way that would click install upon installation but not click un-install upon de-installtion. We felt using a call home in that manner was in bad taste.

Also, we had a few complaints from people installing modifications on their test forums. They were not pleased to see certain modifications appering in their usercp 'out of no where'. It was causing us problems....so we fixed the problem.

It could work in a perfect world don't get me wrong. There are just too many ways for it to be abused and few bad apples ruined it for everyone. IMO it would be fine as long as hack author's don't have to add it themselves to the install/uninstall code for products. vBulletin should handle such things and do the needed work based on the productid. Such changes would require a lot of work for the staff here and the developers though. I don't really see the pay off in doing all that work when again, anyone that needs to click the install button is already doing so already.

There will always be ways for people to 'rob you of your install count' so I honestly don't see the point in worrying about it. You should just be happy with learning new things and having other people enjoy your work.

[hambil]

Originally Posted by Brad

You should just be happy with learning new things and having other people enjoy your work.

I appreciate that point of view. And I'm not going to restart the whole argument again. Just appreciate in return that many mod authors feel more strongly about install counts than you do.

I'm glad to know the staff considered this idea. I hope it continues to be considered. I think if it is built into vb.org via product id it would be great.

As for cluttering up your install list, well, no offense but that's a pretty lame argument. Instead of screwing the mod authors how about maybe tweaking the way the installed list works?

[Brad]

Just appreciate in return that many mod authors feel more strongly about install counts than you do.

I can't appreciate that fact because one only cares about such things when they care about status. Honestly we'd all be better off if the counts where hidden..but then that wouldn't be fair to the end users. The counts are there for the end users...not us.

As for cluttering up your install list, well, no offense but that's a pretty lame argument. Instead of screwing the mod authors how about maybe tweaking the way the installed list works?

A list...even redesigned is a list. It must be managed and kept clean. A re-design is just hiding the root problem for the same 'lame reasons' we've been hearing about for years.

If you need more reasons I'm happy to provide them;

1) The "hide a url in <img>" never worked for users that were not logged in. Any similar trick is going to suffer from the same problem.
2) Because install tracking requires a user be a registered member it fails to add a count if a user is not logged in. While it's not a big issue you could argue that this is a waste of server resources.
3) Because number one and two are true, the next thing you'll be asking for is a log-in prompt for vB.org in the admincp if a user is not already logged in.
4) Because number one, two, and three are true I will no longer be able to install modifications without begin logged into vB.org first.
5) Because number one, two, three, and four are true I will no longer be able to install modifications if vBulletin.org is offline or I am not connected to the internet.
6) If you allow users to by-pass the log-in check after doing all the work above the system itself is useless...imagine that! So why do it in the first place?

I could go on but I think you see my point.

[Luky]

18:40 You loose 460 health points from an attack by the wall of text.
18:41 You are dead.

I aint reading all that But anywho, if you dont like this idea, all i wanted is a way to sort by the most downloaded hacks so i can see whats most popular

[hambil]

Originally Posted by Brad

I can't appreciate that fact because one only cares about such things when they care about status. Honestly we'd all be better off if the counts where hidden..but then that wouldn't be fair to the end users. The counts are there for the end users...not us.

Gee, thanks for meeting me halfway. Fine, you don't care about your install count. I do. Many others have clearly stated they do also. You want it insist on seeing us a lesser people for it, have at it and enjoy your day.

A list...even redesigned is a list. It must be managed and kept clean. A re-design is just hiding the root problem for the same 'lame reasons' we've been hearing about for years.

Someone decided to arbitrarily tie receiving update notices to the installed status. Now they are using that completely arbitrary coupling of two very different things as an excuse to not have one of those things work correctly. Automate installed/uninstalled and then change the name of the installed button to 'get updates'. Wow, problem solved. The thing, as you should know, is there are a hundred ways to solve any software problem.

If you need more reasons I'm happy to provide them;

1) The "hide a url in <img>" never worked for users that were not logged in. Any similar trick is going to suffer from the same problem.

The rest of your reason all seem to fall out from this 'logged in idea'. And since it's incorrect the rest are all incorrect. 'hide url' doesn't work because the user is viewing the site in question. A call home works much more like AJAX. There is no reason or need for the user to login. The information is sent and recorded just fine with nothing but a productid and vbulletin license number which we already know you can tie to an account here - in fact every account here is required to have a license number.

[Brad]

Gee, thanks for meeting me halfway. Fine, you don't care about your install count. I do. Many others have clearly stated they do also. You want it insist on seeing us a lesser people for it, have at it and enjoy your day.

Good old text and it's ability to convey the wrong meaning. I'm not going to meet you halfway because I don't agree with your position, but that doesn't mean I see you as less of a person. Infact if I did I wouldn't be taking the time to explain my thoughts like I did.

Honestly why does everyone have to get all pissy when someone speaks their mind? I guess I should I have used a million smilies in my last post or something?

The rest of your reason all seem to fall out from this 'logged in idea'. And since it's incorrect the rest are all incorrect. 'hide url' doesn't work because the use is viewing the site in question. A call home works much more like AJAX. There is no reason or need for the user to login. The information is sent and recorded just fine with nothing but a productid and vbulletin license number which we already know you can tie to an account here - in fact every account here is required to have a license number.

I know what a call home is and I know what AJAX is thank you.

All of that still doesn't change the fact that installs are only accepted from logged in users. If you code the 'call home' in php it doesn't magically solve this problem. You'd still have to prompt for log-in if you wanted it to work everytime. If it doesn't work everytime then it's useless by nature and not worth doing in the first place. Why can't you understand this?

Someone decided to arbitrarily tie receiving update notices to the installed status.

That someone was Chen. The system was put together to allow hack authors to send updates to end users via e-mail. It also allowed end users to track which modifications they were using via the user cp. Number of installs were only shown to give people an idea of how popular a modification was based on the number of people 'tracking' it.

Indeed "Install" probably was the wrong word to use for the image...but at the time everyone understood exactly what it was for and why it was put in place. All hell broke lose when the user title's started begin based on install counts (much later on) and it hasn't stopped since then.

The information is sent and recorded just fine with nothing but a productid and vbulletin license number which we already know you can tie to an account here - in fact every account here is required to have a license number.

You are very very wrong. I won't go into why..but you need to re-think your theory on the backend of this site.

I think I've said everything one can say about this...and I tire of arguing about numbers at 3:45am. Off to bed for me.