The Arcive of Official vBulletin Modifications Site.It is not a VB3 engine, just a parsed copy! |
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#141
11-09-2005, 02:58 PM
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#142
11-09-2005, 03:22 PM
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I've been using vB 3.0.3 for ages now, happily using the free hacks on these forums and, if I felt them worthwhile, buying a couple of commercial hacks (vB Mail and vBaGallery as examples). I'm well known, by some hack authors, for giving feedback and suggestions on there hacks (The links/downloads hack in particular). Although I knew 3.5 went gold I decided not to renew my licence due to the lack of updated hacks for the product.
I wasn't aware of the "discussions" around the commercialism of hacks until reading this thread, although I have been aware that more and more coders were asking for donations. In my opinion one of the great things about vB is the strength of the "free" mods on vb.org and I think we would lose something very special if we were to go down the route of advertising commercial hacks here. If you think about anyone deciding on which forum software to use on their website, not only do they think of the cost of the forums themselves, but the cost of addons after the fact. After seeing that a couple of the hacks I use have now been released for 3.5 I've just paid my ?15 to get my vB licence renewed for this year and since then I was wondering where the "big" hacks had gone from vb.org and now I know. They have gone commercial. If I'd known this before renewing I wouldn't of bothered and stayed with 3.0.3. I think this is a slippery slope. The more commercial hacks on these forums the less free hacks there will be, as more and more coders think they can make money out of people. Some of these hacks cost more than the vB product itself! how can that be right? Should I start charging the authors of commercial hacks for the suggestions I gave them before the product became commercial? How about the time I've put into beta testing their hacks? I'm sure I can come up with an hourly rate if asked  Anyway, I just thought peeps would like to read how some of us non-coders feel. |
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#143
11-09-2005, 03:46 PM
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#144
11-09-2005, 03:47 PM
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#145
11-09-2005, 03:49 PM
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I'd also like to make a point after reading Slave's post above. I'm sure some of the older members can relate to what I'm about to say.
Back in the early days there was a lot more community support here. When I say this I don't mean support in hack threads, I mean more people were teaching and more people were attempting to learn. Now I realize not everyone is here to learn php, most of you guys have your own forum going and come here for modifications this community provides. But the fact still remains that if we do indeed have less people attempting to learn and more importantly less people willing to teach, there won't be as many modifications made. If we do allow something like this, I think it will remain a small part of the website as a whole. We will continue to support a learning environment here, but this is not something that the staff can do by themselves, it takes the entire community. What the staff can do is provide the tools needed to make these things easier. I will use the hack database as an example, it's something we have needed for a long time and I think once it's in place it will make everyone's life a lot easier. While there has been talk of that it's not the only thing we have planned or are currently discussing among the staff. |
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#147
11-09-2005, 05:04 PM
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It's all to do with the mind set. In the old days the community did hacks because they wanted to and for no other reason. Then we had people see others ask for donations and do the same. Now we have people making their hacks commercial and others will follow suit. As I said, it's all a slippery slope to a situation where no hacks are released unless they are commercial. A sad day indeed for places like vb.org .. Frankly, in that sort of situation, I'd prefer to see the vBulletin team themselves start to release commercial hacks/addons to vB than have to pay money to people who have no track record and could close up shop the day after you've paid your money. vB Mail is a case in point .. I paid for the hack, which included future updates, and a few weeks after I'd paid the owner said he'd stopped working on it due to him seeing his hack on a warez download page. Who's to say that won't happen with other commercial hacks? [high]* Slave shrugs .. [/high] While I know the percentage of vB owners who hack their forums is low compared to those who don't, I feel this will be the slow death of the vb.org community and in turn vBulletin will start to feel the effects. I know that I'm starting to look at other forum software and their communities "just in case" .. which I wasn't before. |
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#149
11-09-2005, 05:58 PM
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I've tried to stay out of this thread, mostly for the part of my wanting to strangle a few people who've spoken their mind and some about this subject...
I understand that there are people who want to charge for their products - As I previously mentioned, I purchased TheGeek's GARS and GAB because I believe that for the time and effort TheGeek put in, and the actual time and effort it would cost me, the price seemed fair Now I've already stated that software such as vBSEO is far too overpriced - That's my opinion, and I know some others will jump onto the bandwagon at this point and either agree wholeheartedly or disagree to the point of questioning my intelligence... THIS is what is wrong with this community... The issue here, right or wrong in whoever's eyes, is the release of a Commercial hack on vB.org as a BETA, to then never finish the BETA and move all support and functionality to a Commerical version of the script... Why is this an issue? You aren't providing a finished Lite version of your software for free use; Why should we allow you to BETA test your software on vB.org users and then expect them to pay you $x because you want it to be commerical? There is nothing wrong with charging people for a piece of Commercial software that may revolutionize their forums; What is wrong is baiting people into having to purchase it using the members of vB.org as your guinea pigs... So the question becomes "How do we combat it?" Until now, we've simply removed the modification if it has the slightest hint of doing so - We allow "Donate" buttons in hack threads because the user has a choice... What do you propose we do? Do we charge users who wish to "bait" their clients to advertise their software? Or do we simply continue with removing the software and getting criticism... If someone can please come up with a solution that will keep both sides happy, then by all means speak up... Most likely, there is no perfect solution; We are always going to have a dilemma with whatever choice we make and some people aren't going to end up happy... I'll be watching this thread to see what responses this brings and I assure you that while the tone remains civil amongst you in response or discussion of this that I will contribute thoughts and ideas, snags and problems with solutions brought up... But already there has been some badmouthing and slagging off of other members; As of yet it hasn't happened since when Brad stood in but the tone is getting heated, and I can see something going off if it continues in this manner, so be warned - I will close this and end the discussion if someone crosses the line too much... So please, let's try and work a solution for this that everyone can agree to, or at least propose a way to sort it out? As always, these are my thoughts and opinions, not those of the other Staff members or Jelsoft Chris |
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#150
11-09-2005, 06:01 PM
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I think the coders have every right in the world to charge if they want to. I mean there's a lot of people trying to use that free hack to make some money for themselves at their own website.
Someone said that the hackers should be giving part of the revenue they make to vbulletin for the advertising their hack gets here.. but on the other hand maybe vbulletin should be paying hackers to make hacks because of the advertising it brings to vbulletin in return. I for one would never have bought vbulletin had I not seen customized and hacked boards. The 'out of the box' look does absolutely nothing for me. (meaning it doesn't get me excited). Someone else brought up the fact that there'd be people trying to charge an arm and a leg for their hacks. Its rediculous to see people charging the same price for a hack that I paid for vB in the first place, or even half the price, especially when the hack has 1/100th the functionality. I think we'd still see the high prices a lot, but a smart coder would do something like http://www.tufat.com/ He offers a lot of good scripts for cheap. I wouldn't mind paying $2 to 5$ per hack I've installed (which adds up fast) provided I could test it out and see what I'm getting. Plus he seems to have a great attitude/personality. There's several coders here who I just won't use their hacks no matter how good they are because of their 'holier than thou' attitude towards the simple end user. on the other hand... Quote:
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