for those who have left

[EasyTarget]

Originally Posted by tgreer

I know there are very good programmers there, true professionals who work hard to release quality plugins and provide good support.

you realize that coders don't get paid, right? you make it sound as if you're entitled to their code and support because you paid money for someone else's product (vbulletin). I do think that there should be some steps taken to encourage and ensure more/better support, but by no means do I think of it as something that I'm owed/entitled to from coders who are sharing their modifications for free. (maybe some option to uncheck the support box on hacks that say they're supported when in reality they're not? Maybe some award for those that provide good support, like a member vote or whatever?)

And why would you run to .com and throw a tantrum about people here who are providing useful tools to others? Who cares if there is competition? It'd actually probably be better if there were more competitions because many people like to be challenged and it would end up making the modifications better and better.

If you want to tell .com that you think they should have paid coders/staff who release hacks and modifications, then say so.

Would you go to the redcross and whine because aide workers, who volunteer their time, are competiting with eachother to try and help the most people? Or if they had meetings which only aide workers were able to attend? [sarcasm]Oh no, segregation!! They're people just like everyone else, but they get to go to a meeting that I don't get to go to simply because they're helping others and I'm not! Bring out the human rights activists![/sarcasm]

[noppid]

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

you realize that coders don't get paid, right? you make it sound as if you're entitled to their code and support because you paid money for someone else's product (vbulletin). I do think that there should be some steps taken to encourage and ensure more/better support, but by no means do I think of it as something that I'm owed/entitled to from coders who are sharing their modifications for free. (maybe some option to uncheck the support box on hacks that say they're supported when in reality they're not? Maybe some award for those that provide good support, like a member vote or whatever?)

And why would you run to .com and throw a tantrum about people here who are providing useful tools to others? Who cares if they're competition? It'd actually probably be better if there were more competitions because many people like to be challenged and it would end up making the modifications better and better.

If you want to tell .com that you think they should have paid coders/staff who release hacks and modifications, then say so.

Would you go to the redcross and whine because aide workers, who volunteer their time, are competiting with eachother to try and help the most people? Or if they had meetings which only aide workers were able to attend? [sarcasm]Oh no, segregation!! They're people just like everyone else, but they get to go to a meeting that I don't get to go to simply because they're helping others and I'm not! Bring out the human rights activists![/sarcasm]

I just addresses human rights before you posted.

Are you saying that it's ok to segregate? Are you supporting we should have a white's and colored section?

The idea that one license holder gets more then another in the form of segregation is anologous to racism.

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by noppid

What is twisted is that all license holders cannot access the same information.

That is the point here. There are many poeple that could read and benefit without infringing on anyone.

The fact that one license holder can imply another license holder may be a pain in the whatever and they need a "private" spot and then Jelsoft indulges it is truely wrong and possibly illegal. There have been class action suites over less.

This is the kind of post that we can find a way to deal with on an intelligent and compromising level, without all of the politics and personal vendettas thrown in. Thank you, sir. It is refreshing to see that in this thread.

[tgreer]

Then please tell me the proper interpretation of your post #111, Boofo. What about my interpretation is "twisted"? It seems very clear and unambiguous.

The "Coders Discussion" is a real issue. I'm not the only one who thinks so. It is not a figment of my fevered imagination, and you can't sweep it away by saying it's only a problem because I'm trying to make it one. I have access to it; I released a silly little hack so I could gain access, so this isn't a personal issue. It's a sitewide issue that has caused a rift, and undermines the very raison d'etre of the site.

The arguments put forth are:

• It's a "reward" for contributors.
• We discuss security issues in there, which our users shouldn't see.
• Newbies wouldn't benefit.
• The other programming sections aren't any good.

Surely anyone can see how weak and self-defeating these arguments are? It's obvious, though, that I've lost this battle, and that the only staff response is going to be more of what you've been dishing out, so this thread has been yet another useless exercise.

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

you realize that coders don't get paid, right? you make it sound as if you're entitled to their code and support because you paid money for someone else's product (vbulletin).

Huh? Where? When? I've made no such implication, anywhere. What's needed is a development discussion community. Whether or not such discussions lead to a published plugin, for free or for pay, really doesn't matter one way or another to me. It's nice that many are indeed released, for free, and non-programmers and plugin users should be rightfully grateful for that... but that's a complete non-sequitor to the issue at hand.

[Lottis]

I personally, are happy that i have no acsess there.
A coder, at least knows what he/she talkes about when they discuss coding and so on.
I would probably freak out of the word, security issues.
And starting asking stuppid question.
But what do you mean about this?

The other programming sections aren't any good.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by tgreer

Then please tell me the proper interpretation of your post #111, Boofo. What about my interpretation is "twisted"? It seems very clear and unambiguous.

The "Coders Discussion" is a real issue. I'm not the only one who thinks so. It is not a figment of my fevered imagination, and you can't sweep it away by saying it's only a problem because I'm trying to make it one. I have access to it; I released a silly little hack so I could gain access, so this isn't a personal issue. It's a sitewide issue that has caused a rift, and undermines the very raison d'etre of the site.

The arguments put forth are:

• It's a "reward" for contributors.
• We discuss security issues in there, which our users shouldn't see.
• Newbies wouldn't benefit.
• The other programming sections aren't any good.

Surely anyone can see how weak and self-defeating these arguments are? It's obvious, though, that I've lost this battle, and that the only staff response is going to be more of what you've been dishing out, so this thread has been yet another useless exercise.



Huh? Where? When? I've made no such implication, anywhere. What's needed is a development discussion community. Whether or not such discussions lead to a published plugin, for free or for pay, really doesn't matter one way or another to me. It's nice that many are indeed released, for free, and non-programmers and plugin users should be rightfully grateful for that... but that's a complete non-sequitor to the issue at hand.

Just make sure you drink from the right water fountain in the future.

[EasyTarget]

Originally Posted by noppid

The fact that one license holder can imply another license holder may be a pain in the whatever and they need a "private" spot and then Jelsoft indulges it is truely wrong and possibly illegal. There have been class action suites over less.

this has nothing to do with a private coders forum and can be done by anyone here whether they're a coder or not.

Insert Important information that only us registered/verified members at vb.org can see and all the .com users who have purchased licenses cannot see.

[sarcasm]Uh oh, I just violated some human rights, better find a lawyer[/sarcasm]

Why don't we have the White's section and the colored sections too?

what's funny (sad) is you actually think a private coders forum is on par with segregation.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by Lottis

I personally, are happy that i have no acsess there.
A coder, at least knows what he/she talkes about when they discuss coding and so on.
I would probably freak out of the word, security issues.
And starting asking stuppid question.
But what do you mean about this?

For everyone of you that "don't care", there are ten up and coming programmers that DO CARE and do want to know.

Either way, as a license holder, if you want to get that information, it should be available equally to all license holders.

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

this has nothing to do with a private coders forum and can be done by anyone here whether they're a coder or not.

Insert Important information that only us registered/verified members at vb.org can see and all the .com users who have purchased licenses cannot see.

[sarcasm]Uh oh, I just violated some human rights, better find a lawyer[/sarcasm]what's funny (sad) is you actually think a private coders forum is on par with segregation.

If Joe can get there and Mary can't, but they paid for the same product and support, what should we call it besides segregation?

[Lottis]

Originally Posted by noppid

For everyone of you that "don't care", there are ten up and coming programmers that DO CARE and do want to know.

Either way, as a license holder, if you want to get that information, it should be available equally to all license holders.

Its not that i dont care, i really have no knowleges to be there.
Dont they get acsess when they relese a tiny hack? Tiny ore tiny, its not "flaming" but i mean a littel thing compare to a big hack.
Why should we acsess something we dont know a shit about?
Wouldent we do more harm than good?

[tgreer]

@Lottis: that was given as a reason for the need to have the "Coders Section" private. Re-read the thread, you'll find something to the effect that the "Programmers Discussion" forum wasn't "fit for discussion", so a particular thread was started in the private forum instead. It's called a "circular" argument: why are the existing coding sections of inferior quality, with many threads simply ignored? Because the real coding discussions are private. Why are they private? Well, because the public discussions aren't any good...