I think I've had enough

[Tralala]

I think the wink () has become an annoying and overused emoticon in this thread.

For some reason, coming after some of these posts, it seems very condescending to me.

[Tony G]

...

Right. Anyway, my wink doesn't mean what I said isn't true. It's true. I'm suprised so many members want comments like that to give them hope. Isn't there a bit more to contributing here besides the hope you'll be a mod one day? There's always got to be that want to help people in your mind. With enough people with that attitude the support here would improve.

[Erwin]

I think people need to understand one thing - staff here at vB.org are ALL volunteers (with the exception of Wayne and Zachery who are both official Jelsoft employees). The rest of us, including Brad, Xenon and myself, are volunteers - we do not get paid. The turn-around and support at vB.com is better because the staff there are PAID staff - it's their job.

vB.org is my hobby - it's not my job - neither is it the job of any of the mods here who do this in their own time after their studies, or their day jobs.

Scott is right in saying that this site is big enough to have paid staff to run it like vB.com. More needs to be invested into this site - Marco and others who are coding the Hack Database all have their own lives to live - you cannot expect them to quit university and code the hack databse 24 hours a day for the benefit of people and not get paid for it. That makes sense right?

I would like the coders here not to take their frustrations out on the staff here - they are coders like you too, and they don't get paid for all they do in the background, so have a bit of understanding.

There are many things that are out of vB.org staff hands - we try our best, but things like a paid directory is something we have brought up with Jelsoft again and again and it's not up to us to make the final decision.

If you expect professional staff here at vB.org, then tell Jelsoft to hire professional people. Staff here are just enthusiasts of vB, just like you. We are no better, we are no worse.

Of course, all of us want to see this site improve, so let's remain constructive in this thread, and instead of looking at problems, let's look at possible solutions.

[Logikos]

The issues is not about giving coders moderating privileges. I think someone meantioned this once. The issue is not about giving coders money either. As soon as the thread starts to take a positive direction, it's gets thrown out of context. (not directed towards Erwin) I've posted my suggestions, and are about to post one last final suggestion and hope for the best.

I'll post that in awhile, once I'm done typing it.

[Zachery]

Originally Posted by Erwin

I think people need to understand one thing - staff here at vB.org are ALL volunteers (with the exception of Wayne and Zachery who are both official Jelsoft employees). The rest of us, including Brad, Xenon and myself, are volunteers - we do not get paid. The turn-around and support at vB.com is better because the staff there are PAID staff - it's their job.

vB.org is my hobby - it's not my job - neither is it the job of any of the mods here who do this in their own time after their studies, or their day jobs.

Scott is right in saying that this site is big enough to have paid staff to run it like vB.com. More needs to be invested into this site - Marco and others who are coding the Hack Database all have their own lives to live - you cannot expect them to quit university and code the hack databse 24 hours a day for the benefit of people and not get paid for it. That makes sense right?

I would like the coders here not to take their frustrations out on the staff here - they are coders like you too, and they don't get paid for all they do in the background, so have a bit of understanding.

There are many things that are out of vB.org staff hands - we try our best, but things like a paid directory is something we have brought up with Jelsoft again and again and it's not up to us to make the final decision.

If you expect professional staff here at vB.org, then tell Jelsoft to hire professional people. Staff here are just enthusiasts of vB, just like you. We are no better, we are no worse.

Of course, all of us want to see this site improve, so let's remain constructive in this thread, and instead of looking at problems, let's look at possible solutions.

I'd just like to point out again, for the record, I'm not re-embursed for any time spent here.

[Roms]

Originally Posted by Tony G

...

Right. Anyway, my wink doesn't mean what I said isn't true. It's true. I'm suprised so many members want comments like that to give them hope. Isn't there a bit more to contributing here besides the hope you'll be a mod one day? There's always got to be that want to help people in your mind. With enough people with that attitude the support here would improve.

I realize all members need to give a much support at possible. You know as well as I do that the staff here has a life away from the board (we've had this discussion in private). The staff is still very thin and needs to either devote more time or expand a bit.

Support I think that 'most' coders/designers try to devote as much time to support as possible, I find it a matter of pride since it's something I've released. It does get tough when the members never return a thank you or show appreciation.

As far as me using the 'wink' in my post to Tony, I wasn't as patient as I should have been in the past to Tony so I'm making an effort to show him I do appreciate him. okay...

Originally Posted by Erwin

I think people need to understand one thing - staff here at vB.org are ALL volunteers (with the exception of Wayne and Zachery who are both official Jelsoft employees). The rest of us, including Brad, Xenon and myself, are volunteers - we do not get paid. The turn-around and support at vB.com is better because the staff there are PAID staff - it's their job.

I guess that's why Zachery feels everyone is expendable and can be abusive to the members (I can provide posts if needed. ie: example)..

[Shaliza]

Originally Posted by Bubble #5

Great coders like LiveWire, PaulM, and The Geek (just to name a few)

It could just be me, but after you said that, it sounded like some people were bitter that they didn't get mentioned even though you said you were naming a few.

I purchased vBulletin last month, but had been coming here since before then because I decided to look for different hacks in advanced. Those mentioned [& some others] have done some really good ones. Too bad it came to this. Someone made a good point in asking what would happen if most of the real good coders left should this continue.

Quick question for those coders: are you starting up a different forum?

[Smiry Kin's]

main reason i brought a lisense was to get all the cool hacks etc ppl make on here.. anyone can use vbulletin.. .. some people like me, are still learning the basics..

[MThornback]

I want to weigh in on this...but because compared to alot of the heavy weights in here i'm a VB newbie....I am a user as someone called it earlier in the thread...but not for the reason that you implied, and I take exception to being told i'm using people...I leech off peoples work for understanding of the software, php and how to make them work for me to improve my site...I ALWAYS pay credit where credit is due, and I respect the blood sweat and tears of every coder or designer thats part of this community. Reviewing their code has taught me a thing or three, and while i'm still mediocre...I get a bit better all the time...and I have THIS site to thank for it....and by this site I MEAN people like Livewire, Paul M, TheGeek and ZeroTolerence who release complex hacks (and simple ones) that run the gambit for the learning curve for someone like me to learn from.

A few general comments to groups from the newbie:

VB.org staff:
We enjoy this site, cause we keep comming back...but the verbal abuse thats gone on for neigh on 9 pages...has to stop...hambil said it best...we're all admins here....don't insult peoples abilities because of age-old grudges that have no bearing on an experienced member of this community expressing their frustration. He wasn't happy...he told us all why...he didn't say anything that threads all over the site can tell you anyway....community is lacking, and the biggest reason I see is the freedom of speech and the introspection that allows a community TO grow and to move in the direction they naturally progress is being stiffled by staff taking out private problems with individuals publically, and by stiffling ideas...

Disgruntled Coders/Designers of all degrees AND the staff too:
This community if nothing else is an excellent sounding board for ideas and for testing them and watching them come to life. When we lose ANY of you its a blow, because no matter how many installs you have...your work still has value to atleast 1 other person...so its worth SOMETHING....even if you never win HOTM or get a shiny title....when we lose someone who has released ALOT of work we lose the work, but we ALSO lose the resource for questions and help....which to me ends up being the biggest waste...because it creates a break in the cycle of learning....if no one learns from ghosts....

My guess is that no matter how many people get frustrated the community will survive....over time, people will be replaced and the newbie will rise to challenge the master coders of today....problem being that not only is the road harder to travel for the newbie, but the software suffers from the current master coders and designers tightening ranks and not teaching the tricks of the trade....

Thats how I see things....both sides have to actually LISTEN to each other instead of resorting to public pissing contests and bullshit matches....talk TO each other instead of AT each other and both sides might see progress until then your filling the post table for nothing....

my 0.02.

[Dean C]

Maybe you should reconsider and explain why I dislike you and came down on you like a ton of bricks Ken, before you namedrop.