Poll: Should .org have a section for paid add-ons?

[Paul M]

Make a public poll, then you can see who is for/against.

I think you are wrong guessing that 80% of coders are for this, but either way, I'm in the against camp.

[MJM]

Why not create a poll listing possible methods contributing coders at this site can promote their paid add-ons?
It would need to be a multi-choice poll.
...preferrably if we could change our vote till it expires, as ensuing hopefully enlightening dialogue might affect our voting choice.

I would suggest including methods currently allowable. Here's some suggestions ...
- link to website > paid add-ons through profile?
- link to website > paid add-ons in signature?
- paid add-ons itemized with list of coders FOCs in profile?
- vB managed directory of add-ons - for submission only?
- section at forums for paid add-ons - only coders can post - no reply posting/reviews
- section at forums for paid add-ons - coder submitted - reviews accepted.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Make a public poll, then you can see who is for/against.

I think you are wrong guessing that 80% of coders are for this, but either way, I'm in the against camp.

I think the PhotoPost Vs vBadvanced gallery senario shows exactly why this site should not get involved with commercial products. That was not even officially played out here, yet the drama played out here due to it being vB related.

Times that by the number of commercial add ons out there and you have a preview of what it would be like here when customers are unhappy.

[trackpads]

Originally Posted by noppid

I think the PhotoPost Vs vBadvanced gallery senario shows exactly why this site should not get involved with commercial products. That was not even officially played out here, yet the drama played out here due to it being vB related.

Times that by the number of commercial add ons out there and you have a preview of what it would be like here when customers are unhappy.

I dont agree at all. That 'played' out here only because it was allowed to. And only because a few people completely overacted, you included.

Secondly, and you missed this, just because paid hacks would be listed here doesnt mean they will be supported or hosted here, matter of fact I think that is the opposite of whats intended.

As things stand there is no resource listing for paid hacks, a sorely missed feature for a site that should be a complete VB Resource site.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by trackpads

1)I dont agree at all. That 'played' out here only because it was allowed to. And only because a few people completely overacted, you included.

2)Secondly, and you missed this, just because paid hacks would be listed here doesnt mean they will be supported or hosted here, matter of fact I think that is the opposite of whats intended.

3)As things stand there is no resource listing for paid hacks, a sorely missed feature for a site that should be a complete VB Resource site.

1) It played for a little while just fine. Then it was closed because it has no business here. You are suggesting we invite that crap from vendors who have dissatisfied customers on a regular basis?

2) See point one. The problems will come here. They already do. It would be escalated if they had a listing here no matter what.

3) If Jelsoft wants to go in the endorsement and advertising business, I'm sure you'll get that. If not, vb.org will stay as it is.

[Wayne Luke]

Should vBulletin.org have a section for paid add-ons?
Yes. It should. Many customers want a one-stop location for all modifications to the software and most of them would rather pay then have to learn PHP programming. Going along with that it should have resources to find designers, programmers, webmasters, and forum administrators for hire. And not just an ineffectual and vestigial "Services Requested" forum.

Should add-on authors be able to promote their commercial add-ons free of charge?
No... They will have to give to the community. This can be the release of "lite" versions of their commercial hacks, purchasing advertising space (to cover additional resources and help staff). It could even have a requirement of giving XX amount of free add-ons to the community.

Will allowing commercial add-ons eliminate people from releasing free add-ons?
No, I do not believe so. These commercial add-ons are already being created and the number of freebies continues to rise. Some people release all their add-ons for free on this site and they are going to stop? Even some of the people saying this will happen release add-ons as free? Are they suddenly going to turncoat and only release commercial add-ons? Doubtful. Fee or Free software is more of a philosophy and not really a market decision.. Fee based commercial software is not the end of the world and doesn't preclude Free software from existing. If that was the case then products like MySQL, PHP, Mozilla Firefox, Linux, Apache, and tens of thousands or other projects would not continue to exist and prosper even in the face of commercial endeavors.

The mere thought that people will change their philosophy on Software because a forum or a links directory is setup on this site is preposterous. People don't change philosophies lightly.

Finally, should vBulletin.org shoulder the bill of distributing and supporting Commerical Add-ons?
No. This is never what was proposed. It seeems many people who oppose this see a shopping cart and prices assigned to various addons. This is never what was proposed. What has been proposed is a forum where commercial developers can purchase advertising space (in the form of a thread) and advertise their commercial software. They would pay a monthly fee that would enable the site to have more resources and be able to provide more articles, free add-ons, styles, graphics and help the staff with their time here. Alternatively, a links directory where commercial providers would purchase links to have their products listed. At no time would this site be involved in distributing commercial add-ons or would support be provided on this site, at least not without substantial fees involved. If add-on authors want a free ride, they have to offer it to their users for the same price they expect to pay.

No one would be making money off this site without an investment into the site. It is that simple. Any commercial listing would have costs associated with it. There may be ways to mitigate paying actual money but it would require concrete and repeated contributions to the free community.

Finally...
I am not sure I really understand the animosity towards commercial hacks and add-ons myself. vBulletin customers will overwhelmingly purchase commercial styles, often times paying huge amounts for them, and yet complain about paying for a few lines of PHP code? Can't have it both ways. A designer's time is no more valuable than a PHP programmers. In fact, it could be considered less valuable because there are more Graphic Designers in this world than there are Programmers. Supply and Demand.

[trackpads]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

Finally...
I am not sure I really understand the animosity towards commercial hacks and add-ons myself. vBulletin customers will overwhelmingly purchase commercial styles, often times paying huge amounts for them, and yet complain about paying for a few lines of PHP code? Can't have it both ways. A designer's time is no more valuable than a PHP programmers. In fact, it could be considered less valuable because there are more Graphic Designers in this world than there are Programmers. Supply and Demand.

Amen and Mega Dittos.

[MPDev]

Thank you, Wayne, for taking the time to answer those questions.

[MJM]

I have no problems with having a directory of commercial add-ons.

I am interested in this issue because I use vB /add-ons to run a not for profit site which has restrictions on members using the site for self promotion.
We do not sell any products, don't have banners ads, and use of signatures is strictly limited to contributors of site content.

However, the demand for related resources from members and visitors alike necessitates that we need to set up a separate commercial section, and I'm swaying towards the this opinion.

I would go for using a separate domain but this may mean having to have a separate user registration/access vs the current vB usergroup permissions db.

Main concerns are ...
- not losing the integrity of our NFP site.
- using the commercial directory to direct support questions to - NOT to cause more support issues.
- possibly using the commercial add-on to generate revenue towards supporting costs of running a not for profit free service site

~ Mark

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

Should vBulletin.org have a section for paid add-ons?
Yes. It should. Many customers want a one-stop location for all modifications to the software and most of them would rather pay then have to learn PHP programming. Going along with that it should have resources to find designers, programmers, webmasters, and forum administrators for hire. And not just an ineffectual and vestigial "Services Requested" forum.

Should add-on authors be able to promote their commercial add-ons free of charge?
No... They will have to give to the community. This can be the release of "lite" versions of their commercial hacks, purchasing advertising space (to cover additional resources and help staff). It could even have a requirement of giving XX amount of free add-ons to the community.

Will allowing commercial add-ons eliminate people from releasing free add-ons?
No, I do not believe so. These commercial add-ons are already being created and the number of freebies continues to rise. Some people release all their add-ons for free on this site and they are going to stop? Even some of the people saying this will happen release add-ons as free? Are they suddenly going to turncoat and only release commercial add-ons? Doubtful. Fee or Free software is more of a philosophy and not really a market decision.. Fee based commercial software is not the end of the world and doesn't preclude Free software from existing. If that was the case then products like MySQL, PHP, Mozilla Firefox, Linux, Apache, and tens of thousands or other projects would not continue to exist and prosper even in the face of commercial endeavors.

The mere thought that people will change their philosophy on Software because a forum or a links directory is setup on this site is preposterous. People don't change philosophies lightly.

Finally, should vBulletin.org shoulder the bill of distributing and supporting Commerical Add-ons?
No. This is never what was proposed. It seeems many people who oppose this see a shopping cart and prices assigned to various addons. This is never what was proposed. What has been proposed is a forum where commercial developers can purchase advertising space (in the form of a thread) and advertise their commercial software. They would pay a monthly fee that would enable the site to have more resources and be able to provide more articles, free add-ons, styles, graphics and help the staff with their time here. Alternatively, a links directory where commercial providers would purchase links to have their products listed. At no time would this site be involved in distributing commercial add-ons or would support be provided on this site, at least not without substantial fees involved. If add-on authors want a free ride, they have to offer it to their users for the same price they expect to pay.

No one would be making money off this site without an investment into the site. It is that simple. Any commercial listing would have costs associated with it. There may be ways to mitigate paying actual money but it would require concrete and repeated contributions to the free community.

Finally...
I am not sure I really understand the animosity towards commercial hacks and add-ons myself. vBulletin customers will overwhelmingly purchase commercial styles, often times paying huge amounts for them, and yet complain about paying for a few lines of PHP code? Can't have it both ways. A designer's time is no more valuable than a PHP programmers. In fact, it could be considered less valuable because there are more Graphic Designers in this world than there are Programmers. Supply and Demand.

good post.