Why 3.5 is inferior to 3.0

[Mark.B]

In some respects anyway.

First off, as I've mentioned before, LOADS of hacks have not been ported (eg Quickquote, smilies in QR, etc) and clearly are not ever going to be. I cannot upgrade without them, I can't justify an upgrade that adds NO new features for members (because it doesn't) and in fact takes some away in the form of hacks.

Secondly, too much control is lost. If you install, for example, Paul M's 'online today' hack, and also his 'posted today' hack, you cannot change the order they appear in on the front page because it's all tucked away in the plug ins. This isn't Paul's fault, his hacks are great, but there are too many cases now where once you'd have been told 'edit the xxxxx template' but now you are told 'that cannot be changed due to the plug in system'.

I don't want my board looking like an identikit version of everyone else's. I have always installed hacks as a foundation for what I want, to give the functionality, then customised the cosmetic look to suit my site. This is now much more difficult than it was, and in some cases, such as the example above, it's now impossible.

Despite numerous attempts at doing it, I simply cannot attain the same functionality and customisation in 3.5 as I could in 3.0...so currently I am 'left behind' running a 3.0.11 installation when I ought to be running 3.5.4.

Personally I cannot wait for 4.0 which hopefully will be a radical departure from the '3' series and will actually add a new look and new END USER features, so I can at least justify losing some stuff by the fact that other things will be gained.

I mean, who on Earth thought it was a good idea to move from 3.0 to 3.5 and offer ABSOLUTELY NO new features for the end user?

Sorry to sound negative - I love vB - but this whole situation is getting me down. I sort of wish I'd stayed on vB 2 now because the present situation is a mess. At least on 2 you knew where you stood.

[Tralala]

Originally Posted by Mark.B

In some respects anyway.

First off, as I've mentioned before, LOADS of hacks have not been ported (eg Quickquote, smilies in QR, etc) and clearly are not ever going to be.

Search is your friend.

Smilies in QR and QE (for 3.5.x)

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by Tralala

Search is your friend.

Smilies in QR and QE (for 3.5.x)

My fault, I should have been more specific.

What I'm after is smilies appearing next to the QR box, like they do in the main message windows. This was available as a hack on 3.0 but for 3.5 only the drop down version you linked to has been done.

Every time I mention it I get told words to the effect of "tell your members to get used to the new way" which is just ridiculous. They might be prepared to do so IF there was anything else new, but there isn't.

Like I say, the upgrade to 3.5 offers fat zero for the end user, so losing modifications isn't something I can justify doing.

[Borgs8472]

sigh...

Originally Posted by Mark.B

In some respects anyway.

First off, as I've mentioned before, LOADS of hacks have not been ported (eg Quickquote, smilies in QR, etc) and clearly are not ever going to be. I cannot upgrade without them, I can't justify an upgrade that adds NO new features for members (because it doesn't) and in fact takes some away in the form of hacks.

Not the fault of vb 3.5. It IS however the fault of various moderators and members who insisted all hacks would be eventually ported. That was never going to be the case, but was propaganda.

Secondly, too much control is lost. If you install, for example, Paul M's 'online today' hack, and also his 'posted today' hack, you cannot change the order they appear in on the front page because it's all tucked away in the plug ins. This isn't Paul's fault, his hacks are great, but there are too many cases now where once you'd have been told 'edit the xxxxx template' but now you are told 'that cannot be changed due to the plug in system'.

Well that would be because you're technically inept

I don't want my board looking like an identikit version of everyone else's. I have always installed hacks as a foundation for what I want, to give the functionality, then customised the cosmetic look to suit my site. This is now much more difficult than it was, and in some cases, such as the example above, it's now impossible.

waaa!

Despite numerous attempts at doing it, I simply cannot attain the same functionality and customisation in 3.5 as I could in 3.0...so currently I am 'left behind' running a 3.0.11 installation when I ought to be running 3.5.4.

So get in other vb coders to give you a hand then! You can't do everything yourself! I had to pay for 2 of my site's major hacks to be ported, I never shead a tear about this because I knew how essential this was. How much do you care?

Personally I cannot wait for 4.0 which hopefully will be a radical departure from the '3' series and will actually add a new look and new END USER features, so I can at least justify losing some stuff by the fact that other things will be gained.

I mean, who on Earth thought it was a good idea to move from 3.0 to 3.5 and offer ABSOLUTELY NO new features for the end user?

One word: ajax. It is teh cool ^_^

Sorry to sound negative - I love vB - but this whole situation is getting me down. I sort of wish I'd stayed on vB 2 now because the present situation is a mess. At least on 2 you knew where you stood.

Don't give up, it takes an extra push to upgrade, but it does save you time later, especially when it comes to upgrading.

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by Borgs8472

Well that would be because you're technically inept

I'm not technically inept, but neither am I an advanced coder. I don't know how the plug in system works. I can alter php files and obviously templates, but not plug ins. But even then....install plug in, edit it, uninstall it, reinstall edited version.....doing that each time you need to change something is a bigger pain than re-editing php files for each upgrade.

So get in other vb coders to give you a hand then! You can't do everything yourself! I had to pay for 2 of my site's major hacks to be ported, I never shead a tear about this because I knew how essential this was. How much do you care?

There are two issues there...my board is already very non standard with bits of things I've done myself...for example, both v3arcade and ibproarcade running on the same board...I have not documented many of these sorts of things and so any coder would face a mammoth task just trying to decipher what I have actually done. Secondly, who do you trust? There are many horror stories of people paying for stuff and it never getting done, or getting done badly.

One word: ajax. It is teh cool ^_^

Well I suppose it's ok, though it has a tendency to make me go dizzy because I expect the page to reload and it doesn't it just changes and wobbles about a bit....but my members will be very unlikely to even notice the fact it is there.

Don't give up, it takes an extra push to upgrade, but it does save you time later, especially when it comes to upgrading.

I keep thinking that. I have an upgraded test board which I keep thinking is "almost there" but then when I log into it I realise it's actually nowhere near. It's a disater. The 2.3.4 to 3.0.0 upgrade was a lot less fraught for some reason. Probably because that was justifiably seen as "starting from scratch".

[hambil]

As a techadmin for my board I love 3.5 - for exactly this reason:

Originally Posted by Mark.B

my board is already very non standard with bits of things I've done myself...for example, both v3arcade and ibproarcade running on the same board...I have not documented many of these sorts of things and so any coder would face a mammoth task just trying to decipher what I have actually done.

When I took over things where a hacked to death mess. Now, with plugs and products I've been able to create a board that I can upgrade without worrying about all the customizations. That means I can stay on top of security patches and new features when they are released.

1. Techadmins and hack developers are end-users too.
2. Every time you add a hack to your board you are putting in new features that are now far easier to create and maintain.

[99SIVTEC]

as a programmer I greatly dislike the plugin system./

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Mark.B

Secondly, too much control is lost. If you install, for example, Paul M's 'online today' hack, and also his 'posted today' hack, you cannot change the order they appear in on the front page because it's all tucked away in the plug ins.

The 'blame' for that lies with the developers. It was pointed out in the early beta versions that a way was needed to determine what order plugins on a particular hook should run - and they basically did nothing - vague promises of it's "being looked at for the future". :tired:

[Sean S]

Mark I still use vb 3.0.3, and haven't upgraded since then cause I was and still am happy with everything that it has to offer. Recently I was looking to upgrade to 3.5 but looking at how much work I have to redo, it's almost not worth it. I mean I know that the ajax features are nice, but the plugin or the hook system wouldn't really affect me. But my point is that I wanted to upgrade to 3.5, but it seems that 3.5 is a whole different system with a lot of code changes, it would take me a lot of work and money to upgrade my board to 3.5 which I can't do.

But I'm happy to find posts like this and read what some have to say about 3.5 though, I wish they were more

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by Paul M

The 'blame' for that lies with the developers. It was pointed out in the early beta versions that a way was needed to determine what order plugins on a particular hook should run - and they basically did nothing - vague promises of it's "being looked at for the future". :tired:

Definitely....

I don't blame you in the slightest Paul, your hacks are great and among the best supported on this board.

Originally Posted by Sean S

Mark I still use vb 3.0.3, and haven't upgraded since then cause I was and still am happy with everything that it has to offer. Recently I was looking to upgrade to 3.5 but looking at how much work I have to redo, it's almost not worth it. I mean I know that the ajax features are nice, but the plugin or the hook system wouldn't really affect me. But my point is that I wanted to upgrade to 3.5, but it seems that 3.5 is a whole different system with a lot of code changes, it would take me a lot of work and money to upgrade my board to 3.5 which I can't do.

But I'm happy to find posts like this and read what some have to say about 3.5 though, I wish they were more

I found that once we got beyond 3.0.7 there was no point in upgrading the 3.0 series any further and I have now stopped at 3.0.11.

This is because I realsied what was happening. The upgrades were just minor security and bug fixes, and because I made use of Beyond Compare, it dawned on me eventually that what I was actually doing was upgrading but then wiping out the code changes from the upgrade! So in effect I was changing only the version number, nothing else. So I'm not bothering now, it's better to apply the security fixes manually.

I'm going to have another stab at upgrading a backup board today with a fresh copy of the database (which will take over two hours to upload to the backup server!) then I will get an idea of what I will have. My current backup was upgraded months ago and so I've rather lost track of what's been done!