The war as begun..

[p0s3id0n]

i can understand that history is not the strong
part of the vb.org members ...

But some things need to be corrected (friendly )..

What about saving lives during WWII... You are talking about
hiroshima's and nagasaki's inhabitants i suppose ?
no ? errr... maybe about US of A supporting chang kai check's
exactions in china which leaded to the people blindly supporting
Mao ts? doung and his cultural liberation (more than 60 Million
deaths, never equaled).

I admit that sometimes war has accelerated things and scientists
were stressed to unleash new technologies more quickly during
war than in peacefull time... but anyway, technologies are
meant to evolve, and war or not war, sorry xenon, but we
were meant to fly faster and faster.

But talking about war as something which survivors would
benefit makes me sick. War means killing, and killing means
deaths. And a dead body cannot benefit anything.

Apart from being french, my grand parents were born in armenia,
and believe me, all my childhood was filled with war stories,
deportation stories, people having no rules because the
only rules they could follow was 'try to stay alive'...

War never brought anything positive to humanity !!


But, i still know where my side is. Because war is only that
a side against another side ...

Peace and love (i hope i'm not trolling to much for vb.org administrative team ).

[Boofo]

Just curious here. Have you ever been in a War or served your country in the military?

[p0s3id0n]

we had in france a "military service" as it was called :
1 year serving ou country with weapons.

I never did it, out of convictions. As i sayed i am a pacifist.

A weapon is made to kill, and i will never train to kill, life is
to beautifull .

[Boofo]

I agree, life is beautiful. And I appreciate it even more after serving my country in the military. But there is not a pacifist alive that can make me believe if they were being shot at and a gun was nearby, that they wouldn't pick it up and use it to defend themselves. It's easy to sit back and SAY what you would do, but another thing to do it when put to the test. I believe I am a better man for all that I've done through, good and bad. And war was just one of those things. I like being free and not having to worry about being shot at in my sleep or standing in line for scraps of food for my kids. And in order to keep my kids and my wife safe and free, I am willing to go to war, if that's what it takes, to keep things like Sept. 11th from happening all over again. Next time, it could be in my neighborhood. Like it or not, as Xenon and I pointed out, war is an act of nature. It is in all of us, at one time or another. The difference is that I'm one of those that is willing to lay it all on the line so my family and yours can hold onto the ideals we have fought to keep for so long. When it comes to my family, my personal ideals have to take a back seat.

[Xenon]

i can understand that history is not the strong
part of the vb.org members

ok, when you admit here that history isn't your strength it's ok

I admit that sometimes war has accelerated things and scientists
were stressed to unleash new technologies more quickly during
war than in peacefull time... but anyway, technologies are
meant to evolve, and war or not war, sorry xenon, but we
were meant to fly faster and faster.

hmm you should look at the evolves a bit more. of course without the WWI and two we could be able to flight, but not as fast as we can now. Also there was a time named the cold war (hope it's correct translated ) yeah, this time leds into the space and to the moon. But it was a war.

The human nature is bad, you can't say anything against. If it would be different i'd appreciate, but it isn't.
Without war the humanity would have stagnated. Just the part of "have to survive" and "be better than my neighbour" led to advances, and to our currently state of knowledge.

Or to bring up another example. The communism didn't fail because it was a bad system. No, the system is theoretically very good, but it failed because of the humans. Humans need the fight.
It's sad but true.

[p0s3id0n]

it seems many things which do not have anything in
common are in what you say.

Pacifism does not mean being inactive. Going to a front
whatever front it may be whith your own words as your
only weapon and comming back with a victory is what i call
helping my wife and girls to live in a less dangerous world.

I can fight for freedom, i can fight for the lives of the ones i care
for, i can fight for... err.... even nothing, pacifists too are stupid
sometimes .

But fighting and War are not the same thing ! War is inhuman
war is an enormous lie, war is where you fight without really
knowing why...

If i had to live what my grand parents lived, i know i would
be as brave as they tought me. But the iraqi case is something
else : no one can say for sure that hussein is related in any
way to the 11th of september's tragedy.

And for the acts of nature, i agree with you. Sure war is
an act of nature, stupidity too, even rape... But since we
human beings rule that poor earth, maybe we could think
a little bit further and try to use our little trip on this earth
to stop being so 'natural' and to prepare for our kids
an earth where US would not create more than 40% of
the global polution for less than 2% of the population.
An earth where everything wouldn't be doomed since US
refused to sign the kyoto 'accord' (dont know the english word).

All is not white all is not black, but death is always the end,
and i dont want to be the one who kills.



~~edit~~
@ xenon : you are playing with words there , 'cold war' is
not what we are calling a war in that thread... Cold war is
the longest peacefull period of the 20th century, and as you
pointed, it is in that time that man put his foot on the moon.
So you gave me an argument : it is not war that makes science
go faster, it is only the will of a group to be better than the other.
And do you think it can't happen in peacefull time ? I think
it does happen and more often than in time of war


Once again peace and love to all and to the ones you care for ...

[high]* p0s3id0n is going to smoke a joint if you continue [/high]

[Rose]

Today at 08:43 AM p0s3id0n said this in Post #26
But fighting and War are not the same thing ! War is inhuman
war is an enormous lie, war is where you fight without really
knowing why...

~~edit~~
@ xenon : you are playing with words there , 'cold war' is
not what we are calling a war in that thread... Cold war is
the longest peacefull period of the 20th century, and as you
pointed, it is in that time that man put his foot on the moon.

I disagree strongly that "war is inhuman". Rather, I think 'war' is inherint within the human race. I don't think that war is where you fight without really knowing why. I think that in some instances in the history of the humans, this has been the case where militaries may have been fighting for unjust causes, perhaps not even knowing the real reason behind the war. But I think it's very clear in this day and age exactly why we, the allies of a peaceful global community, are declaring war. There is a threat that has made itself known and threatened the free people - both Iraq's own citizens and those in other countries such as threats to America. This is a very real concern. After months of trying the peaceful route, war really has become a last resort of sorts.

And while I don't know much about the cold war, I'm don't really agree that it was a "peacefull time" when literally millions of people lived in fear every day that they would be bombed. I couldn't imagine the stress of growing up and learning to "duck and cover" in school. But again, this isn't my strong subject, just a random personal opinion.


*passes a joint for p0s3id0n in respect for differences of opinion*

[Dean C]

Just at college right now - looking forward to reading the news when i get home

- miSt

[Chris M]

War suX...

But thats life...

All I will do is not it down, and vote for someone other than Blair in the next election

Satan

[p0s3id0n]

Today at 03:03 PM Rose said this in Post #27

I disagree strongly that "war is inhuman". Rather, I think 'war' is inherint within the human race. I don't think that war is where you fight without really knowing why.

The fighting spirit is inherent of the human race, fighting to
stay alive first, to be the best after, then to dominate the
weaks.

But war is not a fight where the goals are in front of you,
where you can hit your enemy and come back home with
a torn wrist.

War is all a nation with all its people blinded by vast mediatic
lies hating without having ever met them another nation,
war is when a soldier becomes nothing more than a dot on
a battle fields, even if he's been a talented artist in real life,
or a loving daddy, or the two . war is when you kill people
that you could have loved in other circumstances. That is where
war is where you fight without knowing why.[/quote]

I think that in some instances in the history of the humans, this has been the case where militaries may have been fighting for unjust causes, perhaps not even knowing the real reason behind the war. But I think it's very clear in this day and age exactly why we, the allies of a peaceful global community, are declaring war. There is a threat that has made itself known and threatened the free people - both Iraq's own citizens and those in other countries such as threats to America. This is a very real concern. After months of trying the peaceful route, war really has become a last resort of sorts.

and it makes me really sad, but when it comes to choosing
a side, i'm with G Bush, because i'm not as dumb as chirac,
but i'm very sad.

My daughter just told me while we were eating :
"why do thet hurt people ? it's stupid to hurt people.
If i was there i'd tell them that hurting people makes
them sad." lea

And while I don't know much about the cold war, I'm don't really agree that it was a "peacefull time" when literally millions of people lived in fear every day that they would be bombed. I couldn't imagine the stress of growing up and learning to "duck and cover" in school. But again, this isn't my strong subject, just a random personal opinion.

yes, but however stressfull environement it was, it was
peacefull and science made a great leap during that time
as it did during world wars.

*passes a joint for p0s3id0n in respect for differences of opinion*

i knew we had more in common than economical interests