Well, this is not fair Xenforo Vs IB and we are in the middle.

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by cellarius

Just because you don't get what people like about xF, it does not mean people are "joining a bandwagon" or blindly following some devs.

Most funny of all is your statement that you won't move away from vB, no matter how ignorant IB behaves, because vB has had a great history. If you're still hoping for a change in business pracitce - well, good luck with that. We've been waiting for five years for that to happen. Maybe you'll think different after another five years.

Time will tell but currently VB wins over Xenforo for me. I am looking for a good 'Complete' product - feature rich, so i won't abandon VB just because IB is so bad. There are other means that can force IB to change their business practice, more public criticism. No one likes to sell a business and yet instead of receiving good publicity, receive bad criticism. I haven't seen bad criticism about IB that would cause them to worry and start revising themselves, what i saw is criticism toward VB instead of IB more.

You can't put words in my mouth because i never said this. I quotes some of the replies when others say Xenforo is catching up with VB. That is just a plain dream or a lie. It is not about "I don't like what ppl like about Xenforo" I am a member there and i have test it myself and found lack of major features, especially when it comes to the admincp.

It has already reached and surpassed the level of vb 4 functions, and bug free

We know you support Xenforo and you sell mods there, it is ok to support what helps you make money or the fact you don't like IB, but it is not ok to support wrong facts.

And the fact that we want to see for instance the new Ckeditor on vb 4.x , and it is not done yet because it is time consuming, it would be hypocrite of me and others to demand it when Xenforo have completely choose the easy way out and implemented the Redactor editor which is ugly; simple but ugly and not feature rich.

[Digital Jedi]

Business practices are like the wind. You never know which direction your favorite company is going to go. That's why I pay little attention to it. I look at the product. If they're not manufacturing their line with souls of orphan babies, I'm probably not going to care how unintellegent they are. It's not like they're going to pay much attention to me.

Where you can make some headway is on the user to developer level. You express your needs reasonably to the development staff (or their equivalent, depending on the company we're talking about) and you can sometimes take advantage of changing winds. Consider the fact that the changes with vBulletin, the one's you don't like, were sudden and unexpected. No reason it can't, and most likely will, change again.

Consider, too, that these types of discussions seem to want to place vBulletin and xenForo owners in two distinct categories, when they don't have to be. I happen to own licences for both. I like both. I use both. I am starting to develop for both. I don't care if the companies, or the fans, want to quibble. Because leaning one way or the other cheats me of the user experience gained from each.

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

Business practices are like the wind. You never know which direction your favorite company is going to go. That's why I pay little attention to it. I look at the product. If they're not manufacturing their line with souls of orphan babies, I'm probably not going to care how unintellegent they are. It's not like they're going to pay much attention to me.

Where you can make some headway is on the user to developer level. You express your needs reasonably to the development staff (or their equivalent, depending on the company we're talking about) and you can sometimes take advantage of changing winds. Consider the fact that the changes with vBulletin, the one's you don't like, were sudden and unexpected. No reason it can't, and most likely will, change again.

Consider, too, that these types of discussions seem to want to place vBulletin and xenForo owners in two distinct categories, when they don't have to be. I happen to own licences for both. I like both. I use both. I am starting to develop for both. I don't care if the companies, or the fans, want to quibble. Because leaning one way or the other cheats me of the user experience gained from each.

That is exactly right (: and what Mike referred to below.

Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman

I wonder if Chevrolet type forums get discussions like this comparing Chevy to Ford?

Long story short the situation is "iffy" at the moment... many coders went to Xen but because their site welcomes them, has an area for paid mods and such. Was this because it lacked so many vBulletin features as Katie put it ever so lightly or was it to help improve the number of add-ons by doing so in-turn helping sell the base product? Heck I don't know and unless Kier or someone else from xen specifically stated so no sense drawing conclusions but we can see that many like that system and that's from the last time I was on the site which was well over a year ago, by now I would surmise things are much better at the xenforo site especially since the lawsuit was dropped/settled.

Does it have the same number of add-ons vBulletin 4 does? No but give it time, how the current setup is seems to work well and is sure to improve. When/If we finally implement something like that here though you'll see many coders return (not an official statement or hint although it has been discussed many times over, possibility mind you = maybe ).

Although to be fair and flat out honest, if you code well and have a good business structure and work ethic then running off to xenforo just because it seems to welcome coders with open arms would have been silly - I've seen many say "I'm no longer coding for vB only Xenforo" and that's just stupid to say and do in my opinion - if you have talent and are in it to make money (why you argued you ran to xen in the first place i.e. paid mod area/selling them there etc) then why not code for both? Some people contradict themselves so much it makes me laugh more than some of you at statements by members here who you should clearly know do not understand coding at all.

Edit: Moved to community lounge, seemed out of place being in just vB5 general discussions .

[cellarius]

What people seem to forget is what a tiny fraction of IB's business vB is. They simply don't care, and they have proven that over several years now. Where people muster their optimism now that the dev team is down to three (!), is beyond me. Now, of course, people will say that xF is only two devs. Yes. But those two devs were able to come up with a very good forum software, and, since that's up to taste, with very good code quality and very low bug count. I will not go into details what vB's legion of coders came up with since 2009.

[katie hunter]

Xenforo is new and based half on Zend framework, modified version + Xenforo. Vb from what i know is not based on a pre-made framework but done from scratch.

It is not about optimism, everything needs optimism anyways but if IB received a bad buzz through business field because of VB and how they handle it, this will affect the remaining of their other businesses and they will have to revise their plans. No one wants to do business with company which disregard customers demands and voices, that is how things are. Money comes with customer satisfaction and good opportunities.

There isn't enough buzz about IB, and how they handle Vb, it is not even in the main stream media. Members have always focused more on VB and complaining toward VB but never changed their direction to complain and make topics about IB and see who manages VB from the inside and so on.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Funny. I thought from the sound of the thread title that this thread might border on lunacy.
I was correct. "4.x is amazing."? Ha! Yeah right.. With its hundreds of confirmed, yet unresolved bugs!?
Total nonsensical thinking....

J.

[SPEEDKILLZ]

After Years On VB, And Days On Xf. it Is Not Looking Good For VB from My Point. Especially After The Vb5 Release, The Future Of VB Don't Look Good. VB3 Was The Best Release And has Went Downhill Ever Since. Don't get me wrong i still have a vb license and may or may not switch back, bot over the last few days on XF i am truly impressed.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

Funny. I thought from the sound of the thread title that this thread might border on lunacy.
I was correct. "4.x is amazing."? Ha! Yeah right.. With its hundreds of confirmed, yet unresolved bugs!?
Total nonsensical thinking....

J.

One can find something flawed amazing, if the bugs don't directly relate to anything they personally do on their site. Which is why so many people liked Ford in the 80s.

[Lizard King]

Most important thing when big boards decide about the software they use is not only today. They also try to think about the future. Will you create a business which is dedicated to casette's ? Of course no because that technology is dead. That is the unfortunate truth about vBulletin. It is dying slowly and the future doesn't look so bright.So why expect anyone to dedicate their time on a software which has no future at all.

Also as stated earlier not all boards move to XF , we moved to IPB and happy about it. Digitalpoint were ahead of us on post numbers when they move to xf and we completed our move. Now we have more posts then Digitalpoint.

We use some free some paid modifications for IPB but we also had a lot of custom development because of our boards needs.

Which also can clearly point out that all boards needs are different from one another. So no solution is perfect but at least other solutions seem to have future.

[Bram H]

Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5

Oh really... can you make custom BB codes yet? No?

Can you upload smileys directly from the Admin CP yet? No?

Does it have Blogs or Articles yet? No?

Does it have Multi-quote yet? Kind of? You mean i have to scroll all the way back up again each time I hit reply? So No?

Does it have a way to leave comments when you "Like" something? No?

Does it have 1800 FREE modifications? No? Does it have ANY free modifications anymore? That's a serious question, I haven't looked in a while.

Does everyone need all the features above? Of course not- but there is no way you can say it has surpassed vBulletin in functionality... In stability, yes, perhaps- but simpler software is easier to keep bug free.

Truth is XF hasn't even hit VB 3.x level of features yet, let alone VB 4.x.

It may well surpass VB4 one day, but it hasn't happened yet. I don't hate XenForo mind you, but reality is reality. The only forum software I truly despise is IPB.

Some of the things you list it doesn't have. But I think you are looking at the software from a administrator perspective.

What really counts is how users rate the software and from our experience in the last two years its nothing but positive after people have adapted to the new forum software.

User experience is king imo.

The free add-ons, I actually avoid. Paying a tiny bit to a proper developer ensures me that there will be ongoing support, improvements and so far every installed payware mod (with exception of one) has worked out very nicely.

If vB4 and 5 are so feature rich and good, how come vb.org is still using the 3.x series since 1978?

The fact that you react so agitated to my honest comments makes me realize i shouldn't have replied to this topic in the first place.

I am not a vBulletin hater, on the contrary, still owe my old licenses from back in the days and if vB6 or 7 will be better than other forum software out there Ill migrate back without a hesitation. As said: user experience is king, so the challenge is all yours.