Proposal: The vBulletin.org Commercial Services and Addons Directory.

[Wayne Luke]

Over time, websites evolve to serve their members. Lately there has been a lot of heated discussion about commercial hacks and addons for vBulletin and this site. Currently they are not allowed in the forums but a good portion of the membership would like to see them here according to recent polls. What I would like to propose is an equitable solution that hopefully addresses the major issues.

Several solutions have been proposed from new sites, commercial forums, advertising on different pages and a directory. After discussion with the Jelsoft Staff, we have decided that a Directory is probably the best course of action. This satisfies two things. First, the forums on this site will be reserved for free and colloborative development. Second, the directory will be self-contained within vBulletin.org and use its permission system as well as the vBulletin Licensing system. This means we can deny complete access to non-licensed members and those advertisers would be known vBulletin users.

The Directory will allow people to advertise their commercial add-ons and hacks to the tens of thousands of vBulletin customers. It will give those same customers a centralized location to find these resources. In addition, links can be purchased by style designers, webmasters, and other service providers so people can have easy access to the resources they need for the best community sites on the Internet.

This will be a main section of the site and any customer will be able to participate. The links will be purchased for a moderate fee but that has not been determined yet. The directory will be moderated by myself and vBulletin.org staff and there will be guidelines for submission. I also want to institute ways for people to get links in the directory through community involvement on this site. Things that would allow this would be free of charge addon releases and template/style modifications released.

This however is not going to be implemented roughshod over the community. We want your feedback. We want to make a solution that everyone can live with and support as part of the community. In order to do that, I want to hear your concerns and comments. For that purpose I open this up for townhall discussion. In this discussion, you will be able to address the proposal directly according to the following rules:

Proposal Discussion Rules:

1. You may post one reply to address the proposal. If I update the proposal or post within the thread, then the count starts over.
2. You may not address other community members at this time. Keep it on topic and directed to the proposal.
3. Any multiple posts will be deleted.
4. You are to remain civil at all times.
5. There will be no deviation from these rules.

Let me hear your comments.. Make sure they are thought out and clear, you only get one chance at this. This thread will remain open until January 1st, 2006. That gives you about 3 weeks to make your comments.

[TruthElixirX]

I'm glad the staff is doing something official and listening to us.

As for me I'm for it. This will not discourage free hacks as many people just starting out will release hacks for free. Also since the hacks are paid for you wil lbe getting priority support or the hack won't survive. Overall the end user wins. We'll see paid modificatins get better so they can survive sicne people are now more aware of other paid scripts.

People who do this for a hobby will still do it for free s othey aren't bound by legialities and such when they don't feel like helping.

There, first post sicne everyone seems to be scared to break the ice. And yes I sort of wrote this from the perspective that it is now in effect, however, I know it is not.

EDIT:: @Wayne, for clarity, I see you have edited your post since I posted (though I have nothing else to add. Just speaking hypothetically) am I allowed to post again?

EDIT 2:: Ignore first edit, I misread the times. But anyways, I suppose an official answer should stil lbe given to keep it fro mgetting used in the future for either side, though I'm pretty sure the common sense answer will be "no, it does not count".

[Corriewf]

I think it sounds really great BUT.

I would advise you all run this by your lawyers if you have not already. The fact that revenue will be made off these listings may cause a liability on the end of Jelsoft for the content of those listings. Although I would personally never hold anyone here responsible for any damage caused by an outside vendor found in your listings, this world has people in it that would. Nothing wrong with playing it safe.

Who would of thought someone would need to be warned that Mcdonald's coffee is served hot..... :ermm:

With that said I cant wait to see this implemented. I know there has to be some mods out there I dont know about that I could use.

Thanks!

[Keyser S?ze]

i agree with what this guy said, you would have a problem if say, a hack came out for $30 bucks for v 3.5.2

everythings fine til 3.5.4 when the hack stops working and the creator has left the building you know, i mean people leave, people die, people just whatever

once you sart dealing with money, and these are not donations, these are cash on the barel for product, you have a responsibility i doubt you want to have

specially since jelsoft isnt the one being paid

---------

i think donations are better, cuz you are not buying the product you are just making a donation to the cause, also what realy happens to any good hack sbeing made, they will all become retail, yes some newer hack-makers will release free, but the good ones will most likly all go retail

[Reeve of shinra]

I think that the proposal seems fair and seems to address many of the key points I've read during various discussions on the topic.

Now on a seperate but somewhat related topic, I remember reading about a new "hack repository" being introduced here on vb.org to help organize the many hacks and styles that have been released here. Can you elaborate on how this might tie into the above "link directory"?

While I am not sure how the directory will work, I know that I as a consumer would like the option of seeing whats available both for free and commerically (or either or given a users specific preference).

[Floris]

About the liability.

One could imagine that besides a set of rules for submission, there will also be a set of rules for participation/download. vBulletin.org is a directory, listing the resources in exchange for a fee. If you use a resource this is not in relation to the web site at all. The author is responsible for his resource and I think people can agree upon the recommendation to always make a backup prior to making changes to their community. And are open to accept that vBulletin.org can not be held responsible for any damage to or data loss off ..

If I find through Google, and download a word document that has a macro virus in it, and my system gets screwed up, surely I can't hold Google responsible.

Anyway, I think we can assume there will be a paragraph stating that we're only responsible for displaying the links. And how we will handle disputes.

I can imagine the reviewers of the links will have the rights to modify, move or delete any links at any time for any reason. As they're the owners of the site. This to protect vBulletin.org in case of disputes, or if we find out someone posted resources that cause damage (like a hack backdoor).

(Am I making any sense here? haha) (back to my coffee)

[Lizard King]

This is great news actually. Till i saw the first discussion i wanted something like this to happen because as a customer i would like to see all paid additions on one site. This may help us to choose which hack to purchase or not. I just ask couple suggestions.
If there will be a link directory then ,
* Members may be able to rate the scripts.
* Members may be able to reply to scripts threads about their opinions.
* No support post shall be allowed within the threads.
* In order to purchase a link from directory the coder must release some number of free hacks to vb.org . It might be any version for vbulletin but the main point is the coder actually helped vb.org previously.

[Daniel]

Don't like the idea...

Intead of releasing hacks to the public that are free, they will turn into ones that you have to purchase.

[Princeton]

First, I want to thank you for keeping us within the "loop". I'm just speaking for myself but it makes me feel more of an "insider" than an "outsider". (I hope this continues.)

Second, I think you made the best choice. I always said a DIRECTORY would be the best solution.

1. It will increase traffic especially if the section is SEO.
   1. Will increase sales
   2. Will increase membership
   3. Will increase participation
   4. Will increase free available addons
2. It decreases liability.
3. Less man-power vs. the other mentioned solutions
4. It offers MORE to all vBulletin owners.

Regarding Submissions

• Allow submission of logo - great for branding (ADVERTISEMENT)
• Payments should be on an annual basis.
  1. Ensures dead businesses are removed
  2. Increases revenue
• Offer per link (ala kart) and membership (no limit on links)
• Price wise - it should be high enough so that it discourages submissions from EVERYONE; but, low enough to be competitive.
• It would be great if customers could sort links via (state/country) ... eg. used as a risk factor (some people would rather do business within a specific area)
• Allow dynamic urls for tracking purpose
• Display POPULAR/HOT based on hits
• Display a RATING - based on a 1-5 stars rating
• Do NOT allow commenting - that could get ugly; and, it may require man-power

With that said..

Free addons will never decline..

• A good business person will continue adding free addons
  • It's the best way to advertise a business.
  • It's the best way to create good karma.
  • It's the best way to build a reputation.

Businesses come and go..
The business environment is very competitive. At any time, a business could close down ... no one can control the success of a business.

• It's the customer's responsibilities to "shop" for the best business.

Create a usable interface...

Get feedback from a handful of people to ensure it's success. PLEASE PLEASE ... DO NOT HAVE ONLY STAFF/CODERS REVIEWING THE INTERFACE.

[Wayne Luke]

Clarify some things here:

1) There is no liability. We will not be hosting these commercial addons on this site. The links will be links to the Author's webpage. There is no more liability for a dead link than there is for Google or Yahoo having dead links in their directory.

2) Fees will be available on a monthly and yearly basis. The exact fees haven't been determined yet. All income earned will go to benefit this site, either for additional software needed over the long term or to support the staff.

3) There is no proof that commercial software will eliminate free of charge addons. In fact software markets suggest the exact opposite is happening in the world. Commercial Offerings are becoming scarcer as companies merge or drop products while free of charge software is becoming more prevalent. This is not a trend but something that can be traced over the last 20 years. There is a place for both, even addons in both commercial and free of charge that do the same thing by different authors. Look at phpBB. It is successful and was originally released after vBulletin. Not to mention other free forum systems out there.

And this resets the comments.