What do you think about Vbulletin vs Xenforo?

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by Necrovaris

I don't think thats true at all.

I believe you were originally warned or placed into moderation over this thread: http://xenforo.com/community/threads...xenforo.64602/ If I recall you kept re-posting it after it was locked, and then posted something up about the staff, both of which are against the rules (though looks like theyve deleted all those extra threads), so you only had yourself to blame for that.

You then only noticed recently as evident from your recent posts here and kicked off about it. You posted snippets from a ticket with the staff, but i'm pretty sure you only showed the ticket replies that backed up your arguements, for the staff to go from having you in moderation to deciding to ban your account, you must have done or said something to antagonise and provoke the situation.

Maybe post the whole ticket up? So we can see what really happened and not just your choice clippings.

Anyway what am I getting at. I don't think any of your arguements are valid, they're just what you want to post to try and rubbish XenForo due to them banning you for your own fault.

You know, I do like how you love to twist stories and make stuff up while changing the topic about XF as a product. As much as how Brogan, a XF staff saying lies to justify XF as a product when i never bought the product in the first place. But seriously, if you know better, some of VB moderators here knows about that story which is totally irrelevant to XF.

You don't have any rights to post nonsense filled with lies just to please XF as a product.

You can't change my mind nor my opinion about XF, I already said I joined XF on Sep 20, 2012 and never bought the product.

Move on.

[KW802]

Originally Posted by katie hunter

What about the inferior search function ? Why would they charge for a superior search function when they can include it in their core product, after all, they want to sell a good product, right ? I think anyone who stumble upon the XF search addon/plugin, will say "Why am I buying a search addon that should be part of the core function of XF? Are they giving me a product with a weak search function ?"

The search add-on is supported Sphinx compatibility, the same type of add-on for Sphinx that is available for vBulletin and others with the difference being that the XF add-on is being supported as an official product. The stock search function can't really be considered "inferior" when it is the same type of stock search functionality as vB3/vB4 & others.

When buying vB4, did you question why you were being given a product with a weak search function? After all, as you know, vB4's own search needs a little help sometimes as well...

I use a Sphinx plugin for vb 4.x and it wasn't complicated to install server side, then install the plugin and run re-index. Then after that, everything ran on its own. I haven't tested Vb 5.x though which comes already with it.

It might not be urgent to use it atm but it is a very nice and essential feature in my opinion for Discourse. Many webmasters love to use Sphinx search because they know how powerfull and light it is when it comes to indexing millions of data and searching.

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by KW802

The search add-on is supported Sphinx compatibility, the same type of add-on for Sphinx that is available for vBulletin and others with the difference being that the XF add-on is being supported as an official product. The stock search function can't really be considered "inferior" when it is the same type of stock search functionality as vB3/vB4 & others.

When buying vB4, did you question why you were being given a product with a weak search function? After all, as you know, vB4's own search needs a little help sometimes as well...

Yes, that is for VB 4.x but we know VB 5.x uses now Sphinx search, Vbulletin learned what would be best to use for search results and they've integrated Sphinx into VB 5.x moving forward.

On the other hands, XF is selling a product with a weak search built into its core and if you want the product to perform better, you have to buy a search addon that should have been part of the core function of XF not a plugin in the first place. That tells you a lot actually, that the XF developers think that by spending an x amount of time developing a proper function, they had the right to separate it from the main software and sell it as a plugin. I would never encourage this scheme.

I would encourage seeing new and complex solid features being sold as an addon like a "Gallery" for instance but not something that should be part of the core software.

This is like how Xbox 1 said we will start applying a new policy for those who bought used games, they would have to pay a certain fee to play those used games. Guess who won later E3 ? Playstation 4. That is how the market is, customers doesn't like it when they are being taken advantage of. They look for what is best and cost effective.

[Necrovaris]

Originally Posted by Paul M

We have no interest in why someone may have been restricted or banned from other sites.
It is not our concern, nor could we verify the truth or change the result - do not continue down that route, the posts will be removed and if it persists, further action taken.

The point is valid though is it not? I think Katie is so blinded by rage at being banned from XenForo she can't see the product for what it is, despite her own critisisms and claims countering her own arguements!

Originally Posted by katie hunter

You don't have any rights to post

Well, actually I have every right to post my opinion, as you seem to constantly remind others you are allowed to post yours.

But I know what I saw when you posted those threads and the fallout from Digitalpoint. I still assert my possition that you were banned from XenForo through your own actions, and now the only reaction to being banned you have is to try and rubbish the product, so none of your arguements carry any weight.

[KW802]

Originally Posted by katie hunter

Yes, that is for VB 4.x but we know VB 5.x uses now Sphinx search, Vbulletin learned what would be best to use for search results and they've integrated Sphinx into VB 5.x moving forward.

On the other hands, XF is selling a product with a weak search built into its core and if you want the product to perform better, you have to buy a search addon that should be part of the core function not a plugin in the first place. That tells you a lot actually, that the developers think that by spending more time developing a proper function, they had the right to separate it from the main software and sell it as a plugin.

So, yes, you did question why vB4 had an "inferior" search function then?

In regards to XF, what it tells me is that the developers were realistic in that most forum installs aren't likely to even have Sphinx installed on the server and by separating the Sphinx add-on coding it allows for a leaner core at a lower price point while also offering an option for those customers who might need. You're right, that does tell us a lot.

[digitalpoint]

Originally Posted by katie hunter

Yes, that is for VB 4.x but we know VB 5.x uses now Sphinx search, Vbulletin learned what would be best to use for search results and they've integrated Sphinx into VB 5.x moving forward.

Utilizing Sphinx on the backend, doesn't automatically make it work well. Sphinx is just a technology they can choose to use.

The only reason I point that out is I'm curious if you have ever tried to actually FIND something you were looking for on vbulletin.com?

Example... search for "digitalpoint" there, under vB4 there were over 1,000 results (which I know are still in posts there). Under vB4/Sphinx it shows 43 results.

Even Google sees exponentially more posts, and it doesn't even have access to things like License Customer Feedback areas.

Google shows 1,130 results for me:
https://encrypted.google.com/search?...m+digitalpoint

Long story short is that Sphinx doesn't necessarily make search good, and search under Sphinx on vbulletin.com is flat out terrible.

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by KW802

So, yes, you did question why vB4 had an "inferior" search function then?

In regards to XF, what it tells me is that the developers were realistic in that most forum installs aren't likely to even have Sphinx installed on the server and by separating the Sphinx add-on coding it allows for a leaner core at a lower price point while also offering an option for those customers who might need. You're right, that does tell us a lot.

It doesn't translate that way. Read my previous reply.

VB 4.x didn't have Sphinx Search as part of its core search function
VB 5.x did have Sphinx Search as part of its core function without charging customers for it.

XF does have an enhanced Search Function i.e., using http://www.elasticsearch.org/ they aren't using Sphinx by the way. And so they are charging customers an additional $50 for it when it should be part of the core product. Not to mention being forced to pay for a higher renewal price and if you don't want to keep paying a higher renewal price, you have to actually get rid of the addon you already paid for, so losing the $50 you originally paid. Very very bad policy for money making.

If you had the choice between buying a product with a superior search function without needing to pay an additional $$ for it and a product with an inferior search function and you would need to pay an additional $$ for a better search, which one will you choose? Be honest with yourself.

Remember buying a VB license, grants you access to VB 3.x, 4.x, and 5.x so you have multiple choices and options.

[Necrovaris]

Originally Posted by katie hunter

On the other hands, XF is selling a product with a weak search built into its core and if you want the product to perform better, you have to buy a search addon that should have been part of the core function of XF not a plugin in the first place. That tells you a lot actually, that the XF developers think that by spending an x amount of time developing a proper function, they had the right to separate it from the main software and sell it as a plugin. I would never encourage this scheme.

The de-facto Mysql search is the standard search used in thousands of php applications worldwide. To say its weak is like going into a store and buying a new pet dog, then complaning when they want to sell you a brush to groom the dog because you think the brush should have come with the dog.

[KW802]

Originally Posted by katie hunter

VB 4.x didn't have Sphinx Search as part of its core search function
VB 5.x did have Sphinx Search as part of its core function without charging customers for it.

And the price point for vB5 is what again compared to XF core & prior versions?

Originally Posted by katie hunter

If you had the choice of buying a product with a superior search function without needing to pay an additional $$ for it and a product with an inferior search function and you would need to pay an additional $$ for a better search, which one will you choose? Be honest with yourself.

I would buy the product that works. As you yourself said, that is not vB5, so buying a vB5 license to get access to vB4 would still require an add-on, whether free or paid, to the level of Sphinx searching that you're looking for.

[Necrovaris]

Originally Posted by katie hunter

If you had the choice between buying a product with a superior search function without needing to pay an additional $$ for it and a product with an inferior search function and you would need to pay an additional $$ for a better search, which one will you choose? Be honest with yourself.

vBulletin 5 - $249.00

XenForo - $140
XenForo Search Addon - $50
Total - $190

Yea id go with XenForo, its $60 cheaper