What do you think about Vbulletin vs Xenforo?

[JacquiiDesigns]

Hope everyone's had or are in the midst of having a great weekend!

Originally Posted by nhawk

There are quite a few reasons. But one of the biggest ones is the TMS (template modification system). I can manipulate templates without ever actually touching the templates. So an upgrade to XF has no effect on my add-ons.

Another is the direct access to literally every function in XF. It cuts coding time considerably once you get the idea of how XF works.

And finally, if done correctly one add-on can't interfere with another. So I have very little worry about a mod conflicting with another one. But I still slip up once in a while and have to correct a couple of things here and there with this one.

The entire process is almost like opening a kitchen cabinet and picking what you need to put together a good meal.

I'm no coder - but I think I understand what you're saying. And what you're saying is that XF is much more accessible in terms of coding modifications than vBulletin is...?

This is likely one reason code developers who were once quite active here at vB.org have left by the droves - wouldn't you think? Like with the vB 4 codebase changing between upgraded versions ever few months or so, breaking modifications.

From all appearances - vB 5 Connect has not bettered the situation at all. Example: A year after vB 5 hit the scene - there are only 46 modifications and 17 templates edited shared in the modifications area.

Have you coded anything for vB 5 Connect? If yes - Was the coding process a better experience with vB 4? If you haven't coded for vB 5 - why not?

Originally Posted by katie hunter

...whereas VB uses its own built framework that is built from ground up.

Perhaps. But the general consensus is that vB's "own built framework that is built from the ground up" (especially as concerns vB 5 Connect) is an incomplete shit!

Originally Posted by nhawk

I think you need to understand what the framework is.

...

People could write their own, but why on earth would they want to? There is nothing wrong with using them and in many cases they are required.

Thanks for this clarification.

Originally Posted by katie hunter

I will continue comparing the differences between VB and XF without bring this story up. Vbulletin deserves some positive facts to shine about it. It is been a while now.

Anyway... I'll try not to confuse you with my complex words ((sigh...)) But as a tried and true vBFangirl since 2006 -- I most certainly wish vBulletin (under the inept ownership of Internet Brands) would get its act together. vB has had some of its positives brought to light... That was called vB 3.8.7 --- From my and a great many other vB license holders' perspective though, vB 4 (with the exception of vB 4.2 perhaps) and now the vB 5 bomb is doing absolutely nothing to deserve similar praise.

When and if the time comes to again heap praise on vBulletin - I'll be happy to recommend the script to my hundreds of clients, whom incidentally, are quite happy with the graphics I've provided them.

That time is obviously not now!

J.

[BirdOPrey5]

vBulletin 4 code has been stable for years- that didn't drive away any coders- just general downturn in forums overall- forums are getting hit all over, losing traffic to Facebook, Twitter and other mobile friendly social media. There is less demand and less people willing to put in time to code- not to mention most of the important mods are already coded for VB4.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5

vBulletin 4 code has been stable for years- that didn't drive away any coders- just general downturn in forums overall- forums are getting hit all over, losing traffic to Facebook, Twitter and other mobile friendly social media. There is less demand and less people willing to put in time to code- not to mention most of the important mods are already coded for VB4.

Hmmm - it was my understanding a mass exodus of sorts happened as a result of vB 4. Developers and designers closed shop. Whether or not we can explain this away by saying forums are loosing traffic to social networking sites is probably a moot point... I think it's safe to agree that the introduction of vB 5 Connect did not help one bit.

It may also be debatable as for how "stable" the vB 4 codebase is, especially when you consider the vBulletin 4 tracker lists hundreds of bugs marked as 'unresolved'



I know I know I know - You've told me before, "There are a number of bugs in VB4 in the tracker, yes- do they really affect the day to day operations of a forum? Barely if at all..."

Whatever the case may be ==> These numbers are startling!

And since this is a thread about vBulletin and Xenforo - Take a look at Xenforo bugs as a comparison:



What's wrong with this picture Joe?

J.

[Barcham]

Can XF be trusted to accurately and honestly publish their bug report numbers? While I trust the VB community, and have been moderating VB boards for many years, and am aware of the odd problem that does pop up, my limited experience with the XF online community has not been favourable at all. The image you included in your post is really nothing but user reported bug threads on their board and I think anyone who is honest is aware how they 'regulate' what is posted there.

[katie hunter]

Also the comparison of bug reports are illogical.

Xenforo is new with limited features and resources, and it is bound to presumably have less bugs than Vbulletin. Unlike Vbulletin which has extensive features.

Xenforo's "Resolved Bug Reports" category is filed with topics with prefixes such as "Duplicate" bug ,"Not a bug" hence it is not accurate at all, just a bunch of topics with reported issues.

42 Pages of "Not a bug" that gets put in the "Resolved Bug Reports" section , and 22 pages of "Duplicate" bugs (why not merge?), how is that an accurate report. It is a broken system.

http://xenforo.com/community/forums/...s/?prefix_id=7
http://xenforo.com/community/forums/...s/?prefix_id=8

Not to mention the "Cannot Reproduce" prefix is 8 pages! (8 x 20) around 160 bugs which can't be reproduced. Why would they ever move all these bugs if they can't reproduce them, why move them to the "Resolved Bug Reports" category - they aren't resolved bugs. Just tells me how much XF is accurate with their bug #'s // sarc

http://xenforo.com/community/forums/...s/?prefix_id=6

VB bug tracker always merges duplicate bugs and their bug report is more precise.

[Lionel]

Xenforo is a good script and Kier is a fine coder. But I got a very bad taste in my mouth. I remember a few years ago they announced a special introductary sales that will last a few hours. As a developer I wanted to get a copy so I start to build mods for them. So I went there and asked how would I know when that sale will occur since it was not possible to subscribe to their announcement forum?

I was told I had to come every day and check for it. I complained that I had no such time to come and hang out by them. Then Brogan told me to keep on checking their twitter. To that I replied why would I have time to go on tweeter every 2 hours since that sale will last only a few hours? It could start right after I came and missed it the next day. To that Brogan replied to me: Well take it or leave it. So I left, really disgusted with that kind of arrogant attitude.

Here by vb, the big guys have always been correct toward me, and my personal opinion, 4.2.2 is still the most powerful forum out there.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by Barcham

Can XF be trusted to accurately and honestly publish their bug report numbers? While I trust the VB community, and have been moderating VB boards for many years, and am aware of the odd problem that does pop up, my limited experience with the XF online community has not been favourable at all. The image you included in your post is really nothing but user reported bug threads on their board and I think anyone who is honest is aware how they 'regulate' what is posted there.

Good point... I suppose.
But is not vBulletin's bug tracker user reported bug 'threads' as well? To imply XF (the big bad evil entity ) is lying about the amount of reported bugs it has resolved is not fair.

Afterall - like vBulletin's user reported bug tracker - it's in the best interest of the community to report actual bugs and to see them gone from the script. We all know how vocal communities can be - you know what I mean. And of course we all can see how it might be in XF's best interest to hide actual bug reports. But unlike your experience, my experience with XF online community has been rather sweet. Furthermore - nothing in my past years of experience dealing with vB and XF would lead me to believe Kier and company would do something so devious!

Also - before someone says something about the devious comment: Putting someone who is disruptive and a troublemaker in the moderation queue does not quite qualify as devious in my opinion. Neither does waiting out a 365-day non-compete clause -- then again pursuing a passion for coding fabulous forum software!

Originally Posted by katie hunter

Xenforo is new with limited features and resources, and it is bound to presumably have less bugs than Vbulletin. Unlike Vbulletin which has extensive features.

The actual point of my post was to refute Joe's assertion that vBulletin 4 is steeped in a stable codebase. Unfortunately - It's my opinion that the vB bug tracker screencaps do a pretty decent job of showing that the code is a little less than stable LOL

I've heard your argument before by a handful of people. I don't understand it tbh. I keep thinking to myself - Why should vBulletin's bloated featureset be an excuse for how buggy it is???

----
----

FYI - Here's a screencap I took back on November 30th 2013:



When juxtaposed with this one taken hours ago:


The lack of progress in sorting these bugs is simply depressing. Does Internet Brands not care how buggy it's script is?

Ah. How I miss the glory days when Jelsoft were in charge.

J.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by Lionel

Xenforo is a good script and Kier is a fine coder. But I got a very bad taste in my mouth. I remember a few years ago they announced a special introductary sales that will last a few hours. As a developer I wanted to get a copy so I start to build mods for them. So I went there and asked how would I know when that sale will occur since it was not possible to subscribe to their announcement forum?

I was told I had to come every day and check for it. I complained that I had no such time to come and hang out by them. Then Brogan told me to keep on checking their twitter. To that I replied why would I have time to go on tweeter every 2 hours since that sale will last only a few hours? It could start right after I came and missed it the next day. To that Brogan replied to me: Well take it or leave it. So I left, really disgusted with that kind of arrogant attitude.

Here by vb, the big guys have always been correct toward me, and my personal opinion, 4.2.2 is still the most powerful forum out there.

I don't blame you one bit. I don't like giving my money to folks who act as if they don't give a damn. Internet Brands for one. They act as if they could not give a damn about the state of their flagship product and how disappointed the vBulletin community as a whole has reacted towards it.

My experience with XF has been really great though - so I can only say I've heard a few folks mention the BroganBot or whatever in passing. I've heard a few other not-so-kind nicknames as well

Apparently you're not the only person who got their feathers ruffled by him. I don't know him. So I can't comment on that LOL

J.

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

Good point... I suppose.
But is not vBulletin's bug tracker user reported bug 'threads' as well? To imply XF (the big bad evil entity ) is lying about the amount of reported bugs it has resolved is not fair.

Afterall - like vBulletin's user reported bug tracker - it's in the best interest of the community to report actual bugs and to see them gone from the script. We all know how vocal communities can be - you know what I mean. And of course we all can see how it might be in XF's best interest to hide actual bug reports. But unlike your experience, my experience with XF online community has been rather sweet. Furthermore - nothing in my past years of experience dealing with vB and XF would lead me to believe Kier and company would do something so devious!

Also - before someone says something about the devious comment: Putting someone who is disruptive and a troublemaker in the moderation queue does not quite qualify as devious in my opinion. Neither does waiting out a 365-day non-compete clause -- then again pursuing a passion for coding fabulous forum software!

J.

Listen, i ignored you once here and didn't reply to your stupidity - attacking me after 2 pages that has gone and i ignored you. You obviously feel lonely and have nothing better to do other then posting nonsense on and on.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....&postcount=111

It is pretty easy to point out ignorance one after the other, don't you see yourself being the broken record ?

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

Again with the irrelevancies...as if you know me. And possible misinformation, as if you know what you're talking about. For all you know - I could be a para-legal who knows more about the American system of jurisprudence than those who have passed the bar exam.

Don't you see how stupid your comment is ? You're comparing law students who studied 3 years in college to gain their JD and later took the bar exam to a para-legal who never did any of that.

ARE YOU STUPID ? or acting like one. Stop talking about me because i am not interested in insults like you, you said you have issues, go fix them

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

BTW - you ARE right. Katie has issues. I have issues. Paul has issues. You have issues. Everyone has issues. She's just in lala land and refuses to acknowledge the fact.

J.

I certainly don't have any issues but if you are saying you have issues, then you better go and address them.

If you have something nice to say, say it. If you don't, don't say anything.
Don't talk to me, this is the end of it. This is not the first time i told you directly not to talk to me, yet you continue to do so in many topics I post in.

[nhawk]

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

Hope everyone's had or are in the midst of having a great weekend!


I'm no coder - but I think I understand what you're saying. And what you're saying is that XF is much more accessible in terms of coding modifications than vBulletin is...?

This is likely one reason code developers who were once quite active here at vB.org have left by the droves - wouldn't you think? Like with the vB 4 codebase changing between upgraded versions ever few months or so, breaking modifications.

From all appearances - vB 5 Connect has not bettered the situation at all. Example: A year after vB 5 hit the scene - there are only 46 modifications and 17 templates edited shared in the modifications area.

Have you coded anything for vB 5 Connect? If yes - Was the coding process a better experience with vB 4? If you haven't coded for vB 5 - why not?

.....

vB4 isn't bad for coding add-ons at all. But XF is IMO much easier. However like any software, you need to become familiar with what needs to be done. That applies to vB or XF.

I had coded two of my add-ons for vB5, but vB5 is so unstable that for a while there I would have to issue updates to my add-ons nearly every week with each change to vB5. That's not acceptable to me and I pulled my add-ons because of that. If vB5 stabilizes and becomes more server friendly, I will most likely re-work the add-ons and release them again.

For most of my clients, there are two reasons for changing from vB to XF.

1) vB5.. The ones that are changing just don't want to use it. Those that tested it removed it within 1 day from their servers because of the slowness and load it placed on their servers.

2) vB said they would not fix the multiple file upload problem with the flash uploader. When a user had to fix it, many of my clients felt that was unacceptable and pointed to where vB4 was going.

Now, I'm NOT on the XF bandwagon. I tried to get every client that is switching to stick with vB. But the tide is changing and to stay competitive I have to go with the flow and code for both vB and XF.

And people might ask how many clients can this guy have that it makes a difference? As a regular registered user on my site, you see 14 forums on my site. Each client has their own private forum to discuss their servers/sites with me. And as a result, I see 91 forums.

All but 2 of those clients have chosen to move away from vB. One of those moving is a big board with 1,000 visitors online at any given moment.

How can I have so many clients? I keep telling people to ignore my join date here. I've been around a VERY long time in the private sector. When I say a 'very long time', I mean one of my closest friends put the first entertainment related web site online. I've been around as long as, if not longer than him. I've been involved with vB modifications in the private sector since almost vB day #1.