Difficulties hiring a vb coder...

[iogames]

Originally Posted by Farcaster

I can tell you that my comparable per-hour salary is significantly higher than $15/hour. There would be no incentive for me to do freelance at such a paltry rate.

That's why here in America we outsource our work LOL

[Farcaster]

Originally Posted by iogames

That's why here in America we outsource our work LOL

Ironically, most of the freelance work I have done has been for clients in other countries (European mostly), and this was even before the dollar started loosing value. Very few have even batted an eye at my rates.

[parash]

Originally Posted by iogames

That's why here in America we outsource our work LOL

and yea well they want quality works from them whom they will pay which takes around atleast 5-6hrs sometimes $15 isnt a rate to think of nowadays atleast respecting the time given by other developers...

[markbolyard]

Originally Posted by iogames

That's why here in America we outsource our work LOL

And there is why America is in the shape it's in with it's economy, but that's another topic. But honestly, as mentioned above, the post made in the paid request forum here of someone wanting a logo design for $5.00, style coded for "No more than $10.00"... really, what are people thinking. I completely understand that people have budgets, and although I am one of those who charge a substantial hourly rate, I always try to work within people's budgets and often what they pay isn't the total amount of time I've put in. I also understand that there are younger members that just don't have a lot of money to put into their forums, but those members have to understand that those of us that work for a living and between work, and volunteering here and there on vbulletin.org, there's not a lot of time left in the day to do those types of jobs simply to help out.

You do get what you pay for, and just because you think you got a good deal somewhere for that $10.00 coding job, try finding that person in a month when you need changes or find out that it doesn't work in all browsers, etc, etc...

I think that the paid request forum here is great, and there are many qualified individuals that can do a outstanding job. Perhaps vbulletin.org needs to set minimum prices for jobs to be posted (like sitepoint had with contest) so that the quality of professionals in that forum providing these services get paid a fair wage for the job, and the people seeking the work get quality work. Granted, vb.org is not associated with any of those transactions and is only providing the forum for those in need and those able to provide the service.

[iogames]

To think that in America are the best coders is flat wrong, we may have more coders per capita, so by basic economic logic, ppl will look for price... and you may be surprised that some people have a different and fresh approach to the same problem
I will log off from this thread

[markbolyard]

That comment had nothing to do with implying America had the best coders. It was simply to point out that we outsource far to much work

[legionofangels]

Originally Posted by iogames

$50?!?!
I know excellent coders that have worked for me at $15/h...
I go to Guru.com and many have talent

I agree, except on the hourly rate. I won't work with someone hourly. If you cannot estimate the project properly that states you most likely don't know how to do what needs to be done and need to charge an hourly rate because the coder is unsure of how long something will take. It can greatly be taken out of hand to, if the coder really doesn't know and could end up costing you way more than you bargained for.

I've used Guru, had a great experience, DID NOT take the lowest bid, didn't take the highest. Took the one in the middle, not only because of mid price but because of referrals. The top price had like 4 referrals, while the mid price guy had hundreds. So it was a no brainer we felt.

Even designers typically make $25/hour in companies, so I find it hard to imagine 50/hour. What makes you worth that much would be my question. What have you done that justifies the high cost. Not only that but do you know ALL types of coding, like Flash Actionscript 3, Java, HTML, PHP, etc. Because if you only know one or two types and not some of the harder code systems, you're not worth $50/hour. Unless of course you work really fast. lol

[iogames]

Originally Posted by markbolyard

That comment had nothing to do with implying America had the best coders. It was simply to point out that we outsource far to much work

But we are discussing the hourly rates in DOLLARS, and I've worked with pakistanies, ukranians and argentinians and my dollars pay good quality [i.e. a Flash animation here=$350, same outside=$50 and I can't complaint of the quality, even I received the source code for tune ups ]

p.s. my Nike Shox say 'Made in Malasya' lol

[dtv100]

I think would help if there was a better feedback system .
The problem I have in mention budget first is I don't want to attract wrong people .
I know a job well done by a professional is not cheap but sometimes people have emergency and no way to check coder real feedback maybe a few post here and there but thats all .
a better feedback system will help with a followup function .
so far coder I deal with already all did a great job in low and high budget .but 2 of them was hard to find to fix bugs after upgrade vbulletin.thats why a followup feedback I think is important and people will learn that cheap is not really cheap if you have to pay over and over for same project because coder don't respond onces they have your money .whats funny is I was willing to pay to get them to fix new bugs since they create codes they understand better how it works if I get someone new that person have to take time to go over all codes .

just my opinion hope was clear since not so good with English .

[Ted S]

Originally Posted by legionofangels

I agree, except on the hourly rate. I won't work with someone hourly. If you cannot estimate the project properly that states you most likely don't know how to do what needs to be done and need to charge an hourly rate because the coder is unsure of how long something will take.

As a designer that's a fairly shocking response to me... I've always worked with people who accept a ballpark on a project but one has to understand that more features will mean more work. It's very rare for someone working outside of a large project to define things well enough that there aren't some changes and with changes comes more work. Fixed pricing is good if you don't trust the coder's skills but unless the developer grossly underestimates, it tends to cost you far more in the long run (I estimate 50 hours, it takes 25 because things "click", I win, you lose).

Even designers typically make $25/hour in companies, so I find it hard to imagine 50/hour. What makes you worth that much would be my question. What have you done that justifies the high cost.

I guess I should stop hiring firms where designers run for for $125-$150 an hour and coders $150 - $200.

Anyways, in response to some of the earlier posts... There's definitely always room for more credentials and feedback to verify developers & designers but on the same argument, people hiring have to be honest about budgets and expectations. vBulletin costs under $200 because it's sold to thousands and thousands of people. A custom addon to add a red alert when someone clicks on the secret code word of the day for your forum isn't going to any other site and chances are, you're going to ask for exclusivity even if it would. Sometimes people get lucky and get cheap talent -- I've certainly had my share of bargain work, especially in the design world. However, when you're fighting against other paid projects at good rates, offering something below market is either going to get you a novice or ignored, with those rare exceptions.

I’ve also seen a lot of people hiring who post that they were “shocked” when asked for a deposit. Time has a value and frankly small projects often go south due to conflicts, changes and life.

To get the most out of the project both sides need to be on the same page – this means the person hiring is certain of credentials and the person getting hired is being compensated reasonably with some assurance they’ll get paid. The smaller the project, the harder this is – jumping through hoops for a 2 hour project just doesn’t pan out.