Dumped in an inconvenient situation

[Spinball]

Originally Posted by Marco van Herwaarden

Using the law "as an excuse" costs us a lot more energy then simply ignoring such laws, so in my view you don't really have a point here. Also authors are always free to wave their copyright and let their code be reused by others. If an author can not upkeep his modification(s) anymore, he always has the option to allow another coder to take over. This has happened before and if the author wishes so, then we will always try to support such a request as good as we can.

On a personal note: You are barking at the wrong tree. Try to covince the coders to release their work as a community product free of copyright claims, targeting the vB.org staff is useless as we have no say over the coding written by someone.

No, you're missing my point completely. As the people responsible for running the site you are in a position to (as you have written above)
* encourage absent authors to wave their copyright and let their code be reused by others
* encourage appropriate coders to take over expired mods
* convince coders to release their work as a community product free of copyright claims
I think (hope) I'm targetting exactly the right people.
If you'll stop with the defensive posture for a moment and consider what I'm suggesting.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

I don't see how explaining something is defensive. If you are not willing to get an answer, then don't ask.

Also from one of your own modifications (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=69392):

|| # All PHP code in this file is ? 2000-2004 M2N Ltd # ||

If you want to change the world, the best place to start is at your own work.

[Spinball]

Originally Posted by Marco van Herwaarden

I don't see how explaining something is defensive. If you are not willing to get an answer, then don't ask.

Thanks for the helpful reply. Now I know where I stand with the vb.org team.

About 4 years ago we organised our first stand at a sound and vision show in order to spread the word about our forums. It was particularly educational for me because I got to meet lots of forum members.
It made me realise that forum members are *people* and *customers*.
I had lost sight of this and had been, for some time, running the forum a little impersonally. It happens, I think, to people who have moderated for a while. They become a little uncaring. A little dismissive, sometimes.
It's not so much letting the power go to their heads, it's just a loss of perspective.
They are busy and find themselves rushing through their moderating 'duties' a little too quickly, perhaps. Marco I think you are not taking the time to read my posts and really absorb what I'm trying to say. Never mind. Let's leave it there.

[G0F0RBR0KE]

I'll just put my two cents in this thread.

Us, (as in coders) have no reason to support modification we release on this forum. Nor is it the staff job to force us to support it. We're the one that is giving it for free and letting other user(s) use it on their own forum.

Why are these hack in the graveyard?

They're not in the graveyard due to author being "absent." They are there so your forum or anyone else forum won't get hack. Don't be surprise when your forum is hack when you're using hack that has SQL Vulnerabilities.

You're always welcome to click "Unstall" so you won't receive e-mail from vBulletin.org. However, don't be creating ticket when your forum get hacks.

If you want those hack to be secure, it's best to post in the "Paid Request" and/or do it your self.

[Dismounted]

Originally Posted by Spinball

I think you are not taking the time to read my posts and really absorb what I'm trying to say.

We know what you are saying. We do read your posts. You want us to suggest to coders who release their work here to waive their copyright over their work so other people can take over in their absence. What do you suggest that we do to send such a message out? As Paul has mentioned, an update to add a checkbox is being planned.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Originally Posted by Spinball

About 4 years ago we organised our first stand at a sound and vision show in order to spread the word about our forums. It was particularly educational for me because I got to meet lots of forum members.
It made me realise that forum members are *people* and *customers*.
I had lost sight of this and had been, for some time, running the forum a little impersonally. It happens, I think, to people who have moderated for a while. They become a little uncaring. A little dismissive, sometimes.
It's not so much letting the power go to their heads, it's just a loss of perspective.
They are busy and find themselves rushing through their moderating 'duties' a little too quickly, perhaps.

This might be a great general topic to discuss.

Originally Posted by Spinball

Marco I think you are not taking the time to read my posts and really absorb what I'm trying to say. Never mind. Let's leave it there.

I am currently out of the country and have very limited access to the internet. I however did take the time to read (and understand) your post and give as good as a reply as i can give. I do admit however that i sometimes give a short (or "defensive") reply when answering on topics that have been discussed before many times.


I can not speak (obviously) for other staff members, but i do know that i take every remark/suggestion/complaint serious. If that will lead to the answers or results that the thread starter wanted, is a different issue.

Staff is here to keep things running in order (moderating) and to facilitate the community within reason. We however always need to consider the interest of the entire community (Coders, Designers and regular users), the effort needed by the staff to facilitate a request (moderator time, coding time, etc...).

vBulletin.org is not Jelsoft or our staff, it is the community itself that makes the site. So if coders want to release their work free of copyright or offer support for free (or not), then it is up to the part of the community that is made up of the coders. If (a majority or large part of) the coders would request better facilities to indicate that they offer their work free of copyright, then we would consider adding options to make that easier.

[smacklan]

Perhaps you should re-read what you just posted here Marco:

Staff is here to keep things running in order (moderating) and to facilitate the community within reason. We however always need to consider the interest of the entire community (Coders, Designers and regular users)

and not be so heavy handed with your tactics...you know what I am talking about. There is way too much un-even moderation that goes on at this site by certain staff.

[Alfa1]

Originally Posted by Dismounted

As Paul has mentioned, an update to add a checkbox is being planned.

This is amazing news! A very nice improvement IMHO.

Originally Posted by Marco van Herwaarden

Also authors are always free to wave their copyright and let their code be reused by others.

On a personal note: You are barking at the wrong tree. Try to covince the coders to release their work as a community product free of copyright claims, targeting the vB.org staff is useless as we have no say over the coding written by someone.

I disagree somewhat: Your say is defined by your ToS. I agree with you that as coders are sharing their work, they should have the last say about how and where their work ends up. However, if a coder disappears, there is only one tree left to bark at. Though I think brainstorming would be better
What I mean is that something should be arranged by vb.org to handle situations where a coder disappears. If the checkbox covers that, that's extremely nice. But the situations that are not covered by the checkbox, should be covered by the vb.org ToS.

[Dean C]

Originally Posted by Spinball

And if the author doesn't give a toss? If they've cleared off, they probably don't give a damn.
At least ask the author if it's ok if someone adopts the hack and post an invite to the community to take up the reigns.

So just because I don't give a toss about my modification anymore, that gives you the right to take my code and use it to your potential benefit? That's called breach of copyright. So just because Apple doesn't give a toss about it's original macintosh line of computers, doesn't mean you can take it, add a few new bits to it and re-release it.

[MRGTB]

Originally Posted by Dean C

So just because I don't give a toss about my modification anymore, that gives you the right to take my code and use it to your potential benefit? That's called breach of copyright. So just because Apple doesn't give a toss about it's original macintosh line of computers, doesn't mean you can take it, add a few new bits to it and re-release it.

That said, lets say you had some hacks released here and you no longer had the time or the interest to update them anymore. What's wrong with letting another coder step in and carry on updating it for members to continue using. Remember, where not talking about a person taking over abandoned hacks to "sell" them, where talking about them still being supported as FREE hacks for community members as a whole to use. By another coder, who is quite frankly "is willing to give up his free time up to continue supporting it for you without any gains in doing so, as all download credits goes to the original author". Which would otherwise just become and outdated hack thats no longer compatible with future vBulletin releases (maybe), and end up in the graveyard as trash.

I really think the TOS on this site needs to be re-thought out. And should point out to Authors releasing hacks here, if they decide to no longer support them. Other coders have the option to take over and update them for you as an abandoned hack. In a way this already happens here anyway, I've seen many a hack released were members have replied posting fixes to errors etc. Then the Author has took it on-board and updated his hack with the help of other members replies like this.

It's a real waste to see good hacks released, only to go to the graveyard because the original Author has either vanished or simply doesn't want to know anymore. Leaving vB.org with there hands tied. This is why things must change.