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DirectPixel · #**101** 03-02-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeton

here's one that shouldn't talk .. selling skins that do not validate
what's really bad is that most of the "problems" in his coding style is common sense -- anyone with coding knowledge could tell you this

regarding the thread: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=108958
you ask for a "review" yet you feel hurt when something doesn't go your way ... why not cry somewhere else bud?

No, I didn't miss the point ... it's just that people like that usually do not do their homework. Hence, they cry foul when they cannot be bothered with STANDARDS. Standards are available for a reason ...
1)__ they can save you money
2)__ they can make your pages appear the same on many appliances

Sorry, that statement wasn't directed to you ... but, to the general public

There is a difference between STANDARDS and VALIDATION. I'm talking about validation. There's a difference.

Let me use the site listed in your signature as an example. http://www.gtwebhost.com -- I'm assuming that's your website, correct?

I put it into the W3C validator. It validates. Congratuations!

But that doesn't mean it's coded properly, nor does it guarantee it'll render properly in all browsers. Let's see... not commenting at your website's visual rendering but only at the source code itself, I found the following problems:

* Excessively nested <DIV> tags. You don't need 3 layers of <DIV> tags, 1 nested table, and another layer of <DIV> tags just to display your main navigation links.

* Tables not used for tabular data. The point of tables is to show tabular data. Not for layout. While your tables do validate because you've provided a summary attribute, you are using them improperly in a fashion not recommended by W3C (the organization and standards body behind your all-so-mighty XHTML Validator)

* Using ID's and Class names that are not descriptive of the content. Another recommendation made by W3C and adopted by designers worldwide.

* Inline tag-level stylesheet declarations. Again, not only bad coding, but also recommendations by the W3C. If you are going to be making tag-level stylesheet declarations, you're better off assigning either an ID and a Class (or both, and use the ID as a modifier of the class).

Code:

<div align="center">
		<div class="page" style="width:740px; text-align:left">
			<div style="padding:0px 10px 0px 10px">

<table summary="header area containing site logo/slogan and important links" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" align="center">
<tr>
	<td>
<div class="nobgcolor"><h1><a href="index.php?"><img src="/images/misc/gtweblogo.gif" border="0" alt="gtwebhost - web hosting and web design, vineland nj" width="190" height="29" /></a></h1></div><div title="web hosting vineland nj, web design vineland nj">Web Hosting Solutions for Business Professionals.</div></td>

These are the first few lines of your <body>. Every single thing I just mentioned above applies.

These are just a few of the problems I found after taking a quick glance at the source code. I'm not trying to belittle your website or your skills--I am simply trying to point out that there is more to good web design and coding than simply validation.

There are many elements that contribute to "good coding", and proper validation is only one of them.

Quote:

Standards are available for a reason ...
1)__ they can save you money
2)__ they can make your pages appear the same on many appliances

Not necessarily true. For many corporations, converting all their legacy pages to become standards-compliant can be very costly. However, I do agree--in the long run and when coding pages from scratch, making them standards-compliant may save a considerable amount of money.

However, being standards-compliant definitively does NOT mean your page will look the same in all browsers. There are rendering bugs in just about every major browser out there, which will affect how your final page will look.

Also, it's important to remember that the W3C validator only checks up on your XHTML markup. It doesn't check your linked stylesheets. Depending on your CSS, even the best-coded XHTML page can be broken in all the major browsers.

And if you REALLY want to get nit-picky, your DOCTYPE is XHTML Transitional. It is recommended by the W3C as a solution for transitioning between old-school HTML and modern standards. Under XHTML Strict (which, in today's world, is a very suitable doctype to use), your site would not render properly at all, since attributes such as "align", "border", "width", etc. have all been deprecated.

Princeton · #**102** 03-02-2006, 04:47 PM

now, you are talking about "coding style"...

I can have a page with <font> tags all over the place and still get it to validate. The difference is I know more than just "coding in html".

the difference between the style at gtwebhost and the styles that people are selling is that it is not for sale ... that style was made 3-4 years ago AND it is POWERED BY a vbulletin platform which is NOT xhtml compliant

and, I do agree with some points you made regarding said style - point taken
however, it has been edited many times since LAUNCHING the site; so, you will find some things that were not from the original

Quote:

However, being standards-compliant definitively does NOT mean your page will look the same in all browsers. There are rendering bugs in just about every major browser out there, which will affect how your final page will look.

Also, it's important to remember that the W3C validator only checks up on your XHTML markup. It doesn't check your linked stylesheets. Depending on your CSS, even the best-coded XHTML page can be broken in all the major browsers.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement; however, that is not a problem with STANDARDS but with browsers. In time, all pages will display the same no matter what appliance you use.

DirectPixel · #**103** 03-02-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeton

now, you are talking about "coding style"...

I can have a page with <font> tags all over the place and still get it to validate. The difference is I know more than just "coding in html".

the difference between the style at gtwebhost and the styles that people are selling is that it is not for sale ... that style was made 3-4 years ago AND it is POWERED BY a vbulletin platform which is NOT xhtml compliant

and, I do agree with some points you made regarding said style - point taken
however, it has been edited many times since LAUNCHING the site; so, you will find some things that were not from the original

I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement; however, that is not a problem with STANDARDS but with browsers. In time, all pages will display the same no matter what appliance you use.

Anyways, let's get back on-topic.

Princeton · #**104** 03-02-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

And if you REALLY want to get nit-picky, your DOCTYPE is XHTML Transitional. It is recommended by the W3C as a solution for transitioning between old-school HTML and modern standards. Under XHTML Strict (which, in today's world, is a very suitable doctype to use), your site would not render properly at all, since attributes such as "align", "border", "width", etc. have all been deprecated.

and yes, you are right ... so, what does that make me ... hmmmmm... knowledgable at what I ' doing.

Now, try to get vbulletin to render correctly with XTHML Strict.

I never mentioned your work ... hmm, I'm wondering if I should take a look. Ahhh, that's ok ... I don't have the time. I'm guessing that I would tear it to pieces but that wasn't the intentions of my postings.

cheers mate .. it's been good discussing this with you but I have some work to do :up:

CAMS · #**105** 03-02-2006, 09:47 PM

lol @ saying my styles dont validate ..

a dont care they work in the mainstream browsers perfectly fine :P

oh and did i mention am NOT a coder? i dont claim to be a coder, am a graphics designer and know very little code.. enough to get a style working in most mainstream browsers without problems and enough to get it coded to look how i want and work how i want.

dont care if it validates or not as long as it doesnt slow it down or coz problems its fine.

realy do think your a twat tho princeton lol

anyway its about time this got back on topic as said.

smacklan · #**106** 03-02-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS

dont care if it validates or not as long as it doesnt slow it down or coz problems its fine.

hehe...good advertising there

btw, "coz" isn't a word...it's spelled "cause". Do try and use proper spelling if you want people to take you seriously.

MRGTB · #**107** 03-02-2006, 10:44 PM

I love a good debate, much less boring!

But I have to say I do think sometimes this whole validation thing is taken much too literally. And I do think people get confused sometimes in thinking just because there site validates means it will work perfect in all browsers.

Which is not the case sometimes, as already pointed out.

b6gm6n · #**108** 03-03-2006, 12:02 AM

I have a set of 8 skins in 1 named 'Lapsus7' (with one extra skin for your pleasure) ...guess how much?

Free... i did decide on making this all free as ultimatly it's the pleasure of using my skins that gives me great joy... maybe a few donations that come my way make up for alot anyways

Lapsus7 will be released in about a week!

-b6

Corriewf · #**109** 03-03-2006, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Bolton

I love a good debate, much less boring!

But I have to say I do think sometimes this whole validation thing is taken much too literally. And I do think people get confused sometimes in thinking just because there site validates means it will work perfect in all browsers.

Which is not the case sometimes, as already pointed out.

Uhh even this site has quite few errors.... I honestly dont care as long as it is functional.

Sean S · #**110** 03-03-2006, 12:28 AM

:cry: I guess I need to start working harder and get my site re-released, not even the first 2 letter of my name is mentioned :disappointed:

lol

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