European Union (UE) is it a good thing?

[RedeemedWarrior]

Originally Posted by Tim Skellett

With added facts, too! Reality is such a wonderful thing, I feel we all should embrace it.

Must we embrace your Reality? maybe everyone else see's a different one

[Tim Skellett]

Originally Posted by RedeemedWarrior

Must we embrace your Reality? maybe everyone else see's a different one

I don't mind, as long as you actually try dealing with the facts as they are. I'm not seeing a lot of facts in the ongoing denunciations of the EU; just emo. A hell of a lot of British businesses would be very glad if Britain would join in the common euro, for example; and leaving the EU completely would spell the end for many British businesses and create a good deal of new unemployment.

The reason for existence of the EU is unfettered trade; and it's extended over into common standards and policies, and thus helps its member countries enjoy the oppotunities of scale.

This is not just "my" reality; it happens to be economic facts of life. I'm sure there are doubtlessly reasons for being unhappy with the EU; but so far I am not seeing any good factual basis for being so.

[RedeemedWarrior]

Originally Posted by Tim Skellett

I don't mind, as long as you actually try dealing with the facts as they are. I'm not seeing a lot of facts in the ongoing denunciations of the EU; just emo. A hell of a lot of British businesses would be very glad if Britain would join in the common euro, for example; and leaving the EU completely would spell the end for many British businesses and create a good deal of new unemployment.

The reason for existence of the EU is unfettered trade; and it's extended over into common standards and policies, and thus helps its member countries enjoy the oppotunities of scale.

This is not just "my" reality; it happens to be economic facts of life. I'm sure there are doubtlessly reasons for being unhappy with the EU; but so far I am not seeing any good factual basis for being so.

Trade at the cost of freedom? not worth it my friend' we're giving up freedoms and rights all to the EU way of doing things.

[Tim Skellett]

Originally Posted by RedeemedWarrior

Trade at the cost of freedom? not worth it my friend' we're giving up freedoms and rights all to the EU way of doing things.

*sigh*

Exactly what freedoms and rights have you given up to join the EU? Let's discuss that. Just wondering. If no-one minds if we do real facts, of course.

[Shelley_c]

Originally Posted by Tim Skellett

With added facts, too! Reality is such a wonderful thing, I feel we all should embrace it.

Reality is pointed out in this thread. I can only speak for the circumstances in Britain but reality and facts are pointed and conveyed across. You ask any briton, and most will say the EU was a mistake to enter into. some won't even know what your going on about but they feel how Britain joining the EU has impacted their lives and suffering for it.

If countries that are accepted into the EU is helping there country then this has backfired. The less developed European countries are the same. All that is happened is mass migration to the more developed European countries (Britain, France, Germany).

Foreign workers accepted in hospitals who cannot speak english, NHS abused and more overcrowded. Why should any immigrant enjoy the luxuries of what our country has to offer (and abusing them) when our own cannot enjoy this. They enter the country with open arms by the government and get everything handed on a silver platter and their arse wiped at the same time.

All I can say is, and can only speak of the UK. The people built and worked hard for what they have and now they are loseing it on a daily basis and these immigrants come flooding in and getting handouts on a whim because law says they have something to offer when infact they spent the last 50 years fighting, raping killing people because their countries were in poverty and war ridden for the best part of the last century.

You cannot help people who cannot help themselves.

[Tim Skellett]

Originally Posted by Shelley_c

Reality is pointed out in this thread. I can only speak for the circumstances in Britain but reality and facts are pointed and conveyed across. You ask any briton, and most will say the EU was a mistake to enter into.

Odd how that most British businesses would not agree with you. Moreover, it may well surprise you, but I do know personally a good many Britons. And a lot of those I know wouldn't agree either, so I really can't see that "most Britons" would see it as a mistake.

If countries that are accepted into the EU is helping there country then this has backfired. The less developed European countries are the same. All that is happened is mass migration to the more developed European countries (Britain, France, Germany).

One thing that is extremely odd is how the Biritish government, both in conservative govts (Thatcher, Major) and Labour (Blair, Brown) have actually supported radical extension of the EU to the rather poor Eastern European countries, often against French and German opposition.

Another odd affair is how Ireland massively benefited from EU membership, economically and socially.

Foreign workers accepted in hospitals who cannot speak english, NHS abused and more overcrowded.

Nothing in the EU regulations to say foreigners who cannot speak English should be accepted as workers into hospitals.

Of course, that has much more to do with the disgusting low pay for health workers in Britain, and the consequent lack of Britons wanting to do health-care jobs, and Britain actively and officially advertising in other countries for health-care workers.

So if you really want to do anything at all real about that particular problem, you should agitate for better rate of pay and conditions for health-care workers in Britain. You should then find that the problem cures itself.

What is certa?n is that the EU has nothing to do with that particular problem.

Why should any immigrant enjoy the luxuries of what our country has to offer (and abusing them) when our own cannot enjoy this. They enter the country with open arms by the government and get everything handed on a silver platter and their arse wiped at the same time. ...

Yeah? Goodness. Of course, this leaves out a lot of facts, but hey.

You might like to speak with British contract building-site laborers in Berlin; British brickies tend to be rather glad of the rights and free movement that the EU gives them. You might also like to talk with the large British colony in Spain. Just to get a balanced point of viw and so on.

[Ziki]

There was a lot of stupid crap they did and even though I am not happy saying this but I must admit that generally it works pretty well.

[UKBusinessLive]

If the UK was not in The EU, I can't see it not trading with EU countries??

Americia is not in the EU and we sell alot of Americian Beers here, Costa rica, where nearly all of our bannas come from is not in the EU, So i doubt that the EU can tell its member states don't trade with the UK because its not in the UK, If it did it would be a dicatorship and not promoting free trade.

Alot of our UK laws now come from Brussels, These laws are letting imigration get out of control with people citing the "Human Rights Act"

The Human Rights Act is one of Labours biggist mistakes, Here in the UK we have a system of legal Aid in which the Goverment helps out with legal fees for those that cannot afford a Lawyer or Solicitor (Attorny) Now with the Human rights act, legal aid has now costing the UK Taxpayer over 22.5 million GBP

With cases such as rapist amd Murders using the Human rights act to get out of prision early etc..

Blair only agreed to this as his wife is a Human Rights lawyer who was set to make ?????, if it became law, So far, it help Murders, rapist and terrorists escape justice. Did you know the UK has one of the Highest populations of terrorist, wanted by other countries but allowed to Stay in the UK because of the Human rights???

I'm not at all keen to let my country be a safe haven for the worlds worst terrorist, who if not in jail are living on benefits and housing provided by the UK taxpayer.

Gordon Brown for Years kept begging Tony Blair to let him be Prime Minister and one of his Promises was that we would have a Vote on whether we the UK taxpayer will want to Join the EU, and Lose all soverignty and our money.

If I had the Choise of Chosing The Queen, Our Currancy, and Our Indepenance against a corupt EU, Their failing Euro, and That lying prat Blair, I'd know where my vote would be

[GSeybold]

Tim Skellett- I appreciate your enthusiam but one thing you've failed to convey in terms of "British Business" is how many of these businessed are owned by actual British citizens-born and raised by people who have long British ancestry? Not many in the big cities, maybe in the smaller towns and villages but that is waining as well. So who are theese "British Businesses" usually benefiting???> foreigners living in England and their families abroad. So how does the EU help the average Brit? The argument of these businesses bringing much economic growth to England through the EU is flawed-just look at their economy now.

[Shelley_c]

Yup he fails to enclose the full statistics but let's not stop there. How many are flourishing with non speaking foreign people who cannot barely speak and understand english. It's futile manipulating statistics with me it simply won't work. Many buisnesses are takeovers by immigrants whom just entered the country, yet the countries are near to ruin. Odd indeed. Let's carry on, large corps outsourcing work to immigrants working for a lower wage are these the businesses that you are saying are flourishing?

Very odd indeed. We like to paint a picture but if we do decide to paint a picture let's paint the bigger picture tim and then, just maybe it may not seem odd at all but more informative about the facts you are aiming to accumulate.

British Migrants in spain are moving there to purchase houses they have worked hard for. You cannot compare the eu immigrants who have come here with nothing and getting everything from the government. The british in spain you cannot compare as they do not get the handouts and luxuries you are speaking of. Let's keep it so people see the big picture tim.

Anything that happened to ireland being benefited socially would have been an improvement. I doubt that the fighting for the last 30 years in ireland and it coming to an end had anything to do with that?

The english army pulling out improved the social status of ireland and feuding parties compromising not joining the eu.

I could go on but the portrait of manipulation your painting is not worth it unless you start thinking da vinci.