Sarkozy: Burkha is not welcome in France!

[lasto]

Originally Posted by JacquiiCooke

ps - I was actually serious about the statement I made - what is the said penalty if a woman is caught wearing a burkha, thus breaking that ridiculous French law? And yes - I know that in some islamic-premised countries there is stoning; sometimes I think such stringent punishments would fair well in western countries ala the thief gets his hands cut off hahaha...

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Ah! Are we talking about "getting even" with these evil Muslim countries or are we talking about actually having the best interest of oppressed woman at heart?

Looking at this purely from an unemotional and unbiased stance - I would say that you guys are being bigots: "Those people are bad so let's take away their rights to wear what they want to wear."

Jacquii.

These are the same people who want their rights imposed in every country in the land yet at the same time DENY our women their fundemental rights in their countries.

Go figure

[Tim Skellett]

Originally Posted by JacquiiCooke

.... Looking at this purely from an unemotional and unbiased stance -

this is why you wondered if the penalty in France of breaking that law would be stoning?


Your statements don't match up with each other.

I would say that you guys are being bigots: "Those people are bad so let's take away their rights to wear what they want to wear.".

Wrong on several counts.

No-one gets "their rights to wear what they want to wear" taken away; but they lose the right to wear the burka (if this law goes through), a very specific and limited exception. There is an important difference between the actualk facts and your blanket, emotional statement.

Your statement is ridiculous if you consider that full nudity is forbidden on most French streets (not all), as it is equally forbidden on pretty much all USA streets. Do you consider banning nudity to be taking away peoples' rights to wear what they want to?

If you don't, your argument falls apart.

If you do, your argument takes on the appearence of one of those purist claims that have nothing to do with the real world.

Next off, claiming that those who want to see burkas banned are bigots is another blanket emotional statement.

You might be right, but you would have to show one hell of a lot more evidence to show you are right.

As it is, you appear to be wrong. Bigotry is rather unmistakable, and no-one here seems to have displayed any real bigotry as yet.

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Originally Posted by bela-meaad

Thats not true
scarf was only prevented in UNI
and that was prevented in secular system time
but not any more
so don`t poke the poison in food and mix up everything

Not true.

Source: Wikipedia

..... With a policy of official secularism, the Turkish government has traditionally banned women who wear headscarves from working in the public sector. The ban applies to teachers, lawyers, parliamentarians and others working on state premises. The ban on headscarves in the civil service and educational and political institutions was expanded to cover non-state institutions. Authorities began to enforce the headscarf ban among mothers accompanying their children to school events or public swimming pools, while female lawyers and journalists who refused to comply with the ban were expelled from public buildings such as courtrooms and universities.

With the rise of the Islamic movement in Turkey in the 1970's and early 1980's, the number of university students wearing headscarves increased substantially and in 1984, the first widespread application of headscarf ban came into effect at the universities, ......

[Sayid]

These are the same people who want their rights imposed in every country in the land yet at the same time DENY our women their fundemental rights in their countries.

Your women rights affect on our young-men and young-ladies ! But burkha is not ...


This is unacceptable in Islam rules and at the same time in the country rules which are taken from Islam rules to affect other people.

Lets discuss how our women must cover up when they go to certain countries,or not even be allowed to kiss or cuddle or show affection for one another in public regardless if married or not.

What an audacity? Animals even never do such things . Huh !!!

Women here in Saudi Arabia can walk on public without burkha . As we explained .

UKBusinessLive

Thanks for that Tim, i haddn't realised that a Muslim Country actually Banned the burkha too

Don,t say Muslim Country loudly . He was just one person who called himself "ruler". In fact, he was layman "laity". He was Atatork who began banning Hijab . Why do not you ask what happened to the society at that time ? Muslims who refused the ruler and wear Hijab are banned from learning . Just read the history books of authoritative historians and you will know many facts about Muslims.
Try to Read this :
http://www.hejabweb.com/English/wearing.html

[Tim Skellett]

Young Turks don't get no gratitude, obviously.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by lasto

These are the same people who want their rights imposed in every country in the land yet at the same time DENY our women their fundemental rights in their countries.

Go figure

I'm not stupid Lasto - I understand this - but please don't be a hypocrit in your arguments. State what you truly mean, be done with it and call it a damn day - But to sit and argue that you just want your law of the land respected when in actuality you are being a bigot is both counterproductive and silly.

Jacquii.

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Originally Posted by Tim Skellett

As it is, you appear to be wrong. Bigotry is rather unmistakable, and no-one here seems to have displayed any real bigotry as yet.

Thanks for critiquing my post
And yes - no real bigotry is displayed as of yet because it's cleverly disguised as giving a damn about the debasement of woman. But anyone with a braincell in their head can read through the threads and interpret what's really going on in this thread. Unfortunately you seemed so wrapped up in my commentary to see that fact. Anyway - no matter, as this thread is getting rather boring actually - so I'm unsubbing so that you guys can continue believing that the purpose of the French law is to strip away oppression for woman, when you know good well that it isn't. It's interesting to see the truth rear its head and real motives peeking out. End of story.

Jacquii.

[lasto]

Originally Posted by JacquiiCooke

I'm not stupid Lasto - I understand this - but please don't be a hypocrit in your arguments. State what you truly mean, be done with it and call it a damn day - But to sit and argue that you just want your law of the land respected when in actuality you are being a bigot is both counterproductive and silly.

Jacquii.

[SIZE=1][COLOR="Silver"]--------------- Added [DATE]1246580495[/DATE] at [TIME].

I love it - really do.
Anyway i hope they ban it worldwide.Our british traditions are always getting stamped on by other religions so its about time we stamped back.

[Big-Pete]

Im in favour for the ban, simply because whenever i have visited another country i have always obided by their laws.. not just because i have too, but out of respect for that country.. I only wish that our government here in the UK would have the backbone to do something similar, but they are too busy trying to please everyone except the taxpaying public with their unelected PM..

Originally Posted by lasto

Our british traditions are always getting stamped on by other religions so its about time we stamped back.

As for Lasto's post, as an Englishman i've got to agree.. In the uk it seems PC to celebrate all sorts of foriegn national days or religous events etc.. Yet when it comes to celebrating our own English / British events we get criticised and thn the PC brigade step in and ban things, Like Christmas celebrations in areas of high foriegn population, and dont get me started on ST Georges Day as that just more or less gets overlooked, god forbid anyone in the UK displaying a ST Georges flag

End of the day, there should be just one rule for everybody!! and that rule should be to respect the law of the country you are either visiting or living in!

[Tim Skellett]

Originally Posted by JacquiiCooke

Thanks for critiquing my post

No worries, happy to be of service.

And yes - no real bigotry is displayed as of yet because it's cleverly disguised as giving a damn about the debasement of woman.

Oh, that just seems to be yet another emotive statement without facts.

But anyone with a braincell in their head can read through the threads and interpret what's really going on in this thread.

Well, I too always like to think anyone with a brain will agree with me.

But I do recognise there can be honest diifferences of opinion.

Unfortunately you seemed so wrapped up in my commentary to see that fact. Anyway - no matter, as this thread is getting rather boring actually - so I'm unsubbing so that you guys can continue believing that the purpose of the French law is to strip away oppression for woman, when you know good well that it isn't. It's interesting to see the truth rear its head and real motives peeking out. End of story.

Disagreement is always so tedious to deal with, eh?

[UKBusinessLive]

Now look at whats happening

Al Qaeda affiliate militants have threatened to launch "dreadful revenge" on France after President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burkha worn by Muslim women was "not welcome" as it was a sign of "subservience."

The French leader told lawmakers at the Palace of Versailles in a special session last week that "The burkha is not a sign of religion, it is a sign of subservience." "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French republic," he told members of both Houses of parliament.

The comment sparked a racial row and was condemned by Islamists in many countries. Now militants of al Qaeda's North African network have called on French Muslims to react "with the utmost hostility".

"We will seek dreadful revenge on France by all means at our disposal, for the honour of our daughters and sisters," an Islamic extremist website was quoted as saying .

"Our Mujahadin followers must not remain silent in the face of such provocation and such injustice," it said in a message.

French security are on "high level of vigilance" as authorities reaffirmed "their determination to fight terrorism". "Our security services will remain on their continuously high level of vigilance against any threat to security in France," a French government spokesman was quoted as saying.

Such a nightmare, especially when so many Moderate Muslims have tried to hard to respect and Blend in with their Western neighbors.

Al Qaeda and the Taliban will simply go on killing innocent Men, Women and Children to get their message across, These Terrorists are more than happy to kill their fellow muslims, putting Muslims who live and work in a western country in a bad light.

We also need to remember that there is a difference between How a country is run and religion, you cannot mix the two and expect answers.

France has decided to Ban the Burkha because it cannot prove if Women are Forced to wear it or Not, We all know Shariah islamic laws are the ones the taliban Practice

Muslims feel that Shariah has been misunderstood by Christians, who have tended to concentrate on the demands for harsh punishments such as amputation of a hand or foot for theft and public flogging for people caught drinking alcohol.

Under the Shariah laws in Afghanistan, the Taliban's religious police, formally known as the Department for Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue, enforce the Shariah laws.

For example, a man’s beard must be long enough to protrude from a fist clenched at the base of the chin. If it is not, he is subject to punishment.

Under Shariah in Afghanistan, women are not allowed to work in any field except the medical sector. The Islamic law of Afghanistan does not allow the employment of women in government departments or international agencies. Women should not go outside their residences with the exception of those working in the medical sector.

Shariah also places restrictions on what women can wear and whom they can see. It forbids women from wearing jewelry and make-up and from making noise with their shoes when they walk. If a woman does work outside the home, she is forbidden to sit beside the driver when traveling to and from work. Stylish dress and decoration of women is forbidden.

There have been reported cases of the beating female doctors and female medical staff at the hospitals where they worked.

Mixing the Countries laws and Religion, where i think theirs a big misunderstanding, all you need to do is read some of the Posts here

It is even more difficult for the people in those Islamic nations to understand a government that does not enforce morality as well as civil law. Since they do not understand the principle of the separation of the government from the religion, when people in Islamic nations see Western nation’s magazines with nudity or near nudity, they believe that what they are seeing is Christianity!

After all, they are told that the United States is a Christian nation. When they see a satellite program that originates from Playboy, they think that is Christianity! When they see a television commercial for any kind of alcoholic beverage, they think that is Christianity!

They do not understand the separation of government and religion. They cannot understand why those who produce such materials are not punished by the government.

Whilst in western countries its not illegal to change your religion or Convert to others, however if you tried to do that in Saudi Arabia , Under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic law, observance of any religious worship other than Islam is illegal and Christians can be arrested for either distributing Christian materials or attending private meetings for Christian worship

As i said earlier, western countries are tolerant of other religions, there are millions of muslims that live in western countries quite peaceful and enjoying life. Its when miliants like Al Qaeda, and the Taliban attempt to force muslims to kill others that we need to keep an extra eye out.

[Lionel]

Last year there was a case in Florida about a woman who went to court filing a complaint, lost and had her driver's license revoked, because she refused to remove the burkha to take a picture to place on license. Now I wonder how the burkha fanatics will react to that?