Obama to close Guantanamo Bay

[Shelley_c]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

That's kind of a disturbing thing to hear (read) someone say, when this is essentially what white men said of blacks for centuries. I'd hoped we had learned our lesson from history.

Despite what I say the world and it's inhabitants don't work like that, it never will. When has anyone every learned from history? and the mistakes that were made that will be made now, tomorrow, next week and in the future and as long as humans walk the earth. Suffice to say, the idea of a perfect world where society lives in bliss, without war, where soldiers abuse human rights whether it's to "potential terrorists" rapists, and so forth. It will never happen, I can almost guarantee that, it's wishful thinking even from the optimists in this world. Which isn't a bad thing, just more of wasted hope.

Sad but true.

[Digital Jedi]

Why is it when one suggests one positive thing, folks counter argument with how the world is never going to be perfect or mention something about bliss? You know, it doesn't take the total transformation of human society for mankind to learn one valuable lesson. If what you said about no one learning from history where true, then about 90% of the positives in our society would not be.

[Shelley_c]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

Why is it when one suggests one positive thing, folks counter argument with how the world is never going to be perfect or mention something about bliss? You know, it doesn't take the total transformation of human society for mankind to learn one valuable lesson. If what you said about no one learning from history where true, then about 90% of the positives in our society would not be.

People will counter argue because it's in their nature, that's how this world works. It would be nice for us to learn from history, the mistakes me make, evaluate the problem, learn from it and integrate it into society. The world is a divided place, it always will be, so it will never happen.

Are we forgetting the rest of the world? 3rd world countries? starvation amongst the african nations. Should we have not stamped out even the basics of horrific situations that humans have to endure? Like I said, we will always be in a situation were one positive at a time is counter met with a negative, a stalemate so to speak. The world will remain stagnated, within it's own way of blissful thinking in creating that "utopia" that will never happen.

Is this thread going off-topic?

[Digital Jedi]

No one's saying that human nature doesn't tend towards the abysmal. But what I am saying is that dismissing human nature as abysmal only means we won't bother with correcting the flaws in ourselves.

[Wayne Luke]

I believe its about time and my post will probably get this thread closed.

At its heart, the prison at Guantanomo Bay is illegal under the 4th amendment of the Constitution of the United States. No one held in the prison has been found guilty of any crime and yet they have been denied Due Process and their property has been forfeit. I would go so far as to say it violates the Geneva War Convention and International Law but other countries sit by and do nothing. Why the architects behind this idea have not been tried under the High Crimes and Misdemeanors clause or subjected to an International War Crimes tribunal is beyond me. However they are reliant on the environment of fear that they want to portray. By having this prison they give people the false hope that something is being done.

By keeping the nation in constant fear, they have done the terrorist's job for them. This really isn't the way to tackle the issue. Even with all the physical and psychological torture of the prisoners has not allowed this program to reveal significant information for what it was meant to achieve... The capture and detention of Osama Bin Laden. In fact, I am sure participants have been planted to feed the administration false information. It would be nothing for a martyr to accept torture to mislead his enemy.

When these participants are found guilty of crimes and afforded due process as allowed under the law then they can be rightfully imprisoned. In fact for the few participants that have been found guilty of crimes, they are imprisoned in prisons on America soil and provided all rights as afforded under our laws. Closing down a blight on the American soul will allow us to move on, rebuild international relations and hopefully actually do some good in the world. Those detainees that haven't been charged with a crime should be free to go. Those that have should be processed through the proper criminal system.

That Barack Obama is willing to take the flak from his Generals and Admirals and close down this prison shows a lot about his character. As long as he continues to do what is right based on the foundations of this country, he will do more in the fight against terror than has been accomplished in the last 8 years. The first step is not giving into fear because that is what they want.

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

I believe its about time and my post will probably get this thread closed.

The first step is not giving into fear because that is what they want.

I can tell you Wayne, if this post make the thread closed, we really have a serious problem ... lol... it is clear that you have a solid opinion on the situation, and right or wrong, you wrote it without insulting a single human being... why close the thread then, i don't know...

the only person i would see close that prison is Obama, for a reason: he see no goal to that prison. mainly it was built to protect the actions that were made there. The prisoners themselves could've been placed in other prisons as for their status was not "mass-murderers"...

anyway, we deal with it, it's an horrible place, like Alcatraz was long time ago, and we surely will see some horror films made of it soon.

[lasto]

keep your prisoners we dont want any - we got enough undesirables already living over here without u lot adding more.
If obama feels that much about them then maybe he can let them stay at the whitehouse with him - such a good guy that he is.

[Magnumutz]

Originally Posted by lasto

If obama feels that much about them then maybe he can let them stay at the whitehouse with him - such a good guy that he is.

That's what i was about to say
But there's no way anyone would send those prisoners to Romania... so i can't say it

[Shelley_c]

Originally Posted by Magnumutz

That's what i was about to say
But there's no way anyone would send those prisoners to Romania... so i can't say it

I doubt there are any romanians in romania, they all seem to be residing in the uk since we joined the eu.

edit: @lasto Intentions are good, but we'll see how far that stretches in the coming 4 years in the whitehouse. Either way, Re-allocat them into friendly neighbourhoods and ask again whether they should be detained. you'll get a different set of opinions on the subject then.

[lasto]

i aint an obama lover,tbh i dont care who is president of the united states.All i care about is american foreign policy.They stick their nose into everyones affair and expect other countrys to follow the leader,whether they are right or wrong,and we being such a lousy country (UK) we follow America regardless of any consequences.

Anyone found any WOMD in iraq yet ? - such bull and if i was to tell lies like that id be known as billy bull *******.Yet the americans do it with style and expect us all to believe in what they say.Obama is no different,the guy promises you what u want and u all follow him like he is the new messiah.Its quite Sad really,how anyone can put their faith in one man when time and time again it has been proven that its best to trust no one and believe nothing.