Let me enlighten you as someone who knows just a smidge about production. Actually, I won't even be sarcastic - I know a LOT about production. 2 Legit to Quit? Samples. Every Dr. Dre song I've ever heard? Samples.

Now, I'm not being contradictory for the sake of it. It's very possible that there's someone playing the drumlines initially to those songs. But the drum and bass that you hear on each are 100% sampled, and overlayed into sections of the songs accordingly. The reason (in layman's terms) that you can tell (in a nutshell, basically, I can expand upon it more if you really need me to) is that if you listen to them, they are sonically 100% the same each time. Real instruments do not do that, regardless of how skilled the musician is. Bass is a piece of wood with metal wound strings. Drums are polymer resin stretched over a canister. No two bass notes will ever resonate the same. Neither will two hits of a bass drum, regardless of the musician behind them.

Big production studios, like the ones that produce both acts that you named, IF they are taking live tracks, will take those tracks, reproduce them electronically, and then THAT is what you hear on the album. Rock artists do it as well. Staind? Sampled. Godsmack? Samples. The new Korn album? Yep. Samples. It's a common studio technique, because with studio albums of big-label-caliber, there's no room for the earthy, artistic sounds that you get with a real drummer playing real drums in realtime on a track. It doesn't happen. And while musicians will appreciate it, anything mass-marketed (like rap) as opposed to non-major bands tailor their albums to the listening, cd-buying public. Jonny paintballer doesn't want to hear a difference in Tom sounds on the new Green Day album. He wants to hear his favorite song. That's what he gets.

That's the music industry. There are exceptions, of course. Offhand: Tool, Dave Matthews Band. Two artists whose careers thrive off of grassroots fans analyzing their music to the Nth degree. DMB needs to be earthy. Tool needs to be, well, if you've ever listened to them, Tool. They have the liberty of using 100% live (analog, mind you) recording techniques because the music that they put out BENEFITS from these qualities in the ears of the people who buy their CDs. The last Snoop Dogg album, the majority of the fans don't care about the saturation and resonance of the bassline. It's club music. DJ's need to mix it, play it, and the fans, quite plainly, just don't ++++ing care.

Are the beats their own? Sure. I'm drinking a glass of scotch right now on my right, and to my left is a pack of smokes. In the middle is my ashtray. I can give you 4/4 on them immediately, but that doesn't qualify it as "music", it's me tapping 4/4 on my vices.

If you want to hear someone that doesn't rap in 4/4, I can actually point one out. Listen to some Eminem. I can't name the song (because, as is obvious, it's not my thing) but I've heard plenty, and some of his stuff is in 7, some of it is in 6/8. And I'm sure that you'll agree that he's certainly a credible, mass-market rap artist.

4/4 isn't discipline man. It's just counting. So is odd meter. Bands like Yes, Rush, Dream Theater - they aren't just maiking signatures up. Playing in 7, 9, 6/8, 11 - that's the same as 4/4, it's just a LOT more difficult to write and arrange listenable melodies in that signature. 4/4 is just easy. Put on the radio right now, chances are it doesn't matter which station. At the first upbeat, start counting. 1.2.3.4.1.2.3.4. That's 4/4. It's easy. Rap is easy. They aren't rapping in 4/4 because it's "the rap discipline", they're rapping in 4/4 because 4/4 is as simple as counting to 4 instead of mixing it up and being creative and talented enough to write verse in something other than the time signature of 99.9% of mass-media, common music.

Listen to the beatles sometime. Check out Sergeant Pepper. I, admittedly, HATE the beatles. I don't like their songs at all, but mother of god, Ringo Starr and George Harrison were absolute theory monsters. Do I like the songs? Not at all. Do I respect them as musicians? You bet.


It's important to note that my day job is a Software engineer. I spent 4 years at Berklee because music means something to me. It's my art. It's how I express myself in situations where human nature might be contradictory. It's the single greatest, most passionate thing that I've ever been a part of.

Do I think it takes skill to scratch records? Yep. Are they even remotely in the same league as I am with a guitar in my hands? I'm sorry man, and if you look through my posts on this forum I consider myself a humble, balanced guy - but not even close.

If you want to learn to scratch records, you scratch records. I play instrumental guitar. In the supreme-nutshell-layman-lets-categorize-everything term, I'd probably be called a neo-classical shred guitarist. There are no "viking scales" or "classical modes" to learn. It's just guitar. I have to know the blues, jazz, metal, classical. I know it all. It's about incorporating blues and jazz scales and progressions into MY music, while at the same time not sounding like I'm a metal guy playing the blues. You can't scratch Miles Davis. I can play Freddie the Freeloader in post-modern progressive shred guitar, staying true to the roots of the song while playing it in a manner that expresses my contribution to the piece.

Is scratching easy? Absolutely not. Is it the same as what I do from a musical standpoint? Again, absolutely not.

I'm not down on you for liking Rap. If you liked kazoo music and that's you're thing, right on man. Music is subjective, and the bottom line is that if what you listen to inspires you, good for you. Keep it up and enjoy it. That's what makes music worth pursuing. The simplest bit of it can inspire millions. In this day and age, things like that are precious, rare, and should be cherished.

I myself simply endluge myself the slightest bit of pride when it comes to someone comparing something that's taken me 20 years to consider myself a novice at to something I could reasonably produce in a week given the time and the finances.