[Ocean]

Originally Posted by Erwin

Most people who copy software or download illegal music files can afford to pay for the software. Just because they don't want to pay for it and probably will not pay for it, doesn't mean that they cannot afford it. They just prefer to save money and spend it on something else.

Pirating software or music is stealing and is against the law. It's also morally wrong. You can justify it however you want.

Erwin, you missed the point. I never argued the morals or ethics of pirating. I was responding to the claims that pirating is responsible for huge financial losses, and does nothing but harm to developers.

I was simply arguing that that statement was untrue. Not whether pirating was justifiable by itself.

Originally Posted by Erwin

I think most programmers and musicians prefer to get paid for their work rather than get free advertising. As would a baker, doctor, truck driver etc. Just because the work of a programmer or a musician is easily copied does not make it right to steal their work.

I never said it was.

Originally Posted by Erwin

Again, your logic is flawed since you are trying to justify the theft of intellectual property by saying that it advertises the original product. Why would anyone pay for the original product if they can get it for free? For example, if I can buy a fake Rolex watch for less price and it's just as good, why pay for a real one? Let alone if I can get if for free.

My logic is solid, because I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm saying that in many cases, developers earn more money as a result of piracy than their hypothetical losses. This isn't theory, I see it happen all the time.

I've bought software based on the recommendation of someone else who had a pirated version - and this was software that I did not know previously existed. The money I paid that developer was a direct result of a pirated copy that that person would not have bought in the first place. Ergo, the developer made money from that pirated copy, and lost nothing.

In addition, I have recommended it to other companies, and so the developer has continued to rake in more money as a result of that single pirated copy. I'm not claiming that this justifies anything - all I'm saying is that it's not the "piracy does nothing but ruin companies" attitude that developers love to claim.

Originally Posted by Erwin

No, you are stealing money from them by stealing their product/ intellectual property. You are stealing their money by stealing the time and effort they put into the product. You are using their product without their permission and consent.

Try to justify it however you want.

As to your first point - if you wouldn't have bought it anyway, than the developer loses nothing. I'm not arguing ethics - just financial loss and gain.

As to your second point, read my post more carefully, please.

Originally Posted by Erwin

Just because good things can come out of a bad thing does not justify the bad thing. Most bad things have good things in them - so what?

Most people who promote piracy are the end-users - most software developers, musicians and holders of intellectual property do not support the theft of intellectual property and breaches of copyright because they are the ones who suffer - not the end-users.

Ironically enough, I once visited a software developer's website where he gave his own opinion on piracy - and it almost exactly mirrored mine. He did feel that it was okay under certain circumstances, and he said that he had no problems with users using his software in that manner.

This was a year or two ago, unfortunately, and I can't remember what the site was - but if I can find it again, I'll post it.

Originally Posted by Erwin

Anyway, we all choose to live our lives the way we want. You choose how to live yours, and I will mine. I'm just putting forth the argument that piracy is not as "great" as you make it out to be.

Erwin, please read the posts carefully. As I specified above, I wasn't trying to justify anything - just countering the popular claims by developers against piracy.

And as I also stated, I did agree that piracy can do bad things for developers. I just disagreed that it couldn't also do good things.