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Originally Posted by zachery

It just wont work in IE4 or NS4

Those menus at that site did work in IE5/NS4x on the Mac - OS9 at that! So it must therefore be possible to do fancy dropdown menus that render in those browsers.

Originally Posted by zachery

If they are really using IE 4 or NS4 they NEED to upgrade to a new browser

I mean Firefox or Mozilla is a damned good replacment for IE anything or NS4.

I cant name anyone still using, by choice anything slower than a 400mhz chip.

Not really. Those in the computer industry take it as a matter of course that if new technology comes out people will just have to upgrade to use it. Guys are also very eager to get the fastest and best. Men and women view computers very differently though - and a large section of the net are women and we're growing fast. They tend to control household spending and if they've splashed out $1000 on a computer they are not likely to upgrade until it's necessary. The kids might whinge that they want a better one, but if they can access what they need as opposed to what they'd like, then an upgrade will come a long way after a new TV or family holiday.

My 'canary' uses those crappy old browsers on the office computers. They have a couple of newer comps with OSX, but most are I think the G4 running OS9. She has tried other browsers but rates NS4 the best with IE5 as a backup. It does the job. Now this is quite a swish Advertising firm, and she's the Creative Director, so it's not a question of finance. They probably figure why upgrade when it does most things required of it?

Most of my users are not computer savvy - and I would say this applies to a lot of women on the net in the 30- 50 age group. And they don't often realise there is a choice of browsers, so they take what comes with the machine. I have a few who use AOL's browser and have little idea there is anything else! I don't think it's my place to tell them to change their browser purely to enjoy my site. And this is where VB puzzles me........

Unlike a lot of boards, they charge for theirs. It would make far more business sense to ensure as wide a potential customer base as possible IMO. It really can't be that difficult to write menus that work on old browsers - that site above did it. I recently installed the Quick Edit hack. The popup at first didn't render correctly on IE5 on the Mac. A bit of tweaking sorted it - no idea what I did but I suspect it's the equivalent of whacking the TV when the picture goes off. Doesn't work on NS4x, puts an open edit box on every post. However the old version for VB2x worked perfectly in both browsers, so again it's possible to have a properly working popup. I'll be using the code from that in place of the new Quick Edit shortly.

Originally Posted by eoc_Jason

Or a simpler alternative is that I believe you can disable the javascript dropdown stuff and use more traditional styles. (I've seen code bits for stuff saying "for browsers that don't support drop-downs" or something similar)... You might just be able to force a variable to disable it for everyone, or add those browsers to the list?

Not an option to turn it off for everyone. They're nice menus, I wanna have them for everyone. *sulks*

The code for browsers that don't support it is rather a half hearted, 'oh here you are, make do with this' type of thing. It puts the links in an ugly box at the bottom of the page. I removed them and put a dropdown like the Forum jump, containing the Display Modes and Mark Forum Read; Printable etc. The Names links sends them to a separate HTML page with a list of links - even in OSX using Safari. It's ugly! So I put all the old icons back at the bottom of posts for those who can't use that menu.

I tried NS6 on the PC and the Thread Tools didn't appear!

Mac users are right to feel forgotten and hard done by. It's like dialup users - there are millions out there who may have the latest computers but for one reason or another don't have cable/dsl. Yet they have to suffer graphics heavy sites with all the whiz bang effects. No thought is given to how long it takes to load for those on modems. If a site is selling something, it serve's them right if the customer goes to a simpler site. And they do.

Sooo, solution seems to be if I want the menus working for everybody - and I do - then work to the lowest common denominator. NS4x and IE5 on the Mac can use the menus on that site above, so that's what I have to do. I don't understand why VB didn't use that kind of javascript in the first place though instead of getting all fancy.

Mac users are right to feel forgotten and hard done by. I'm gonna sort this if it kills me. I promised 'em all I'd get the menus working.

Just have to figure out how to make head or tail of the wretched instructions. :nervous: