[13th_Disciple]

i don't think anyone is attempting a coup.. i also think smart enough admins know to restrict the creation of forums to only those that must be moderated.. ie.. ask for a forum, if it is legit, you get.. if not.. you get lost..

however, all that being said, i think the hack (vBhosting) was a LEGIT hack for LEGIT uses and as has been pointed out, almost all hacks can be used in a way for not so great means.. not to mention the software itself can be used for ill means.. such as forums set up where speech is so that it borders on liable, discrimination and anti-semetic.. but you can only patrol so much in a day..

governing is sometimes better left in the hands of the people licenses and laws are meant to govern.. not in the hands of a government or governing body..

i am not willing to set up a site in direct competition with any one particular party or entity.. but i don't think restricting the type of hacks made, unless the sole purpose is to generate harm or break law/copyright/trademark rules and/or laws..

i see no basic harm in this hack, and i see no basic harm in the lockdown hack.. i see basic harm in preventing people from gaining knowledge.. therefore insuring not only hostility, but genuine ignorance when there is no need for either.. ignorance is not bliss when there is a chance to give the knowledge and not maintain the ignorance..

anyway, if nemisis wants to set up a site, and he is willing to share his name and allow it hosted on my box, and dark wizard and miratos are willing to lend their ability to moderate and generally help run the boards, then i see no reason not to have a more open forum willing to discuss the pros and cons of EVERYTHING and not seek approval before generating a debate based on those pros and cons..

i will not seek to be an approved site of jelsoft.. i don't care about all of that.. nor do i think most honest people here, and even those dishonest.. let's face it, we all love the software (vBulletin) but we don't like the mushrooming (kept in the dark and fed ++++) mentality that has been increasing now for ages.. it is not only not fair to people who pat 85 to 160 for this software, it is unfair to the makers, in the long run, because then you have no chance to see the potential for good that can come out of something that at first glance may seem bad..

so if folks want to do a site, i am all for it and will deal with it on my box.. if not, that is ok too.. but an OPEN forum does not exist within any vB community.. and personally, i am ready for an OPEN FORUM to speak in.. and not have to constantly question myself and wonder if what i said is ok or not..

damn.. sorry about the diatribe..