[TECK]

Originally Posted by Princeton

They are not trying to sell you the same jeans from the 70's ... it may look the same but the product and the message is different...

Excellent point Princeton. That's what we have to do also, apply the old vB.org traditions to a new product, being used by new users

Originally Posted by Princeton

Can you provide us with a detailed list on how vb.org changed?

Since the site growed gradually, there were no taken mesures to increase the staff and improve their hacker skills.
The staff remained small while the site growed exponentially, into a different direction.
No decissions were taken to help the Staff with the vB.org coding, Stefan (Xenon) was the only one who hammerd the hole vBulletin.org site, doing hours and hours of upgrade code.
Did someone offered him help from Staff? It's a question not an agressive remark.

Before, the vB.org administration used to ask the users if they want for example the forums displayed in a different way or if they want any extra features.
The new decissions were without involving the hacker community. vB.org exists because of the hackers. No hacks, no visitors, is that simple.
You outline the hackers, they will leave and your community loses.

In the old time we did not have private forums, for hackers.
What if I'm a newbie and I want to learn? Why would you outside me from the speciffic discussions?
As a matter of fact, we used to encourage newbies to learn so our hacker community grows stronger.

In the past, the personal vendetas between users were not allowed.
Now, anyone can say anything about anybody, especially newbies.
If you are a "coder", you "have the right" to threat a newbie as idiot with remarks like:
How clearer do you want me to say it? Can you read this line: (Quote from the hack)...
Why not be kind and professional, encouraging him/her that he did a great job but he missed a certain line in the help file?
The "hero" attitude does not help in a community.
This phenomenon happened because the Staff let it go, instead of being in control, like in the old days.
You will tell me that the forums growed a lot. Well that's why we hire more mods. I don't see any lose of control at vBulletin.com site.

I cannot think of other reasons for now... but they will come to my mind and I will post them here, promise.
I'm not here to degrade people, especially you, Princeton.
I was simply highlighting the facts. You cannot improve a community if their Staff does not participate activelly into it. Like vB.org staff used to be, in the "golden days".
But I simply try to reflect the the lack of interest/responsability that patrons as we speak at vBulletin.org site.

All the best,

Floren