Kier Throws Down Gauntlet To Template Magicians
 

Well i thought this should've be front page news or atleast an announcement but i guess no ones seen it yet, so check it out.

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=63

will any one take up the challange? is it possible? will it replace the default style if they're able to do it? this i would like to see!!!

Divs are not that magical and versitle.

LMFAO!!!!

I see them all scouring away quietly with their tails between their legs.

Who cares if it's divs or tables as long as it does the job ?

Some people think that its "bloated" with tables.

apparently a two page thread worth of people, and that thread is rather incarnate so it appears alot of people, personally i think if the difference in speed between vB and IPB is the templates then i'd like to see em 'fixed'.

It could be easily done... just it would take someone a fair bit of time (something which I myself do not have :))

I wouldn't even bother ... at least not until IE7 comes out.
IE7 BETA will be released late this summer.

yeah but evne then it's gonna need to be atleast IE6 complient.

I do believe that there can be less use of <table>s.
I also believe that there should be a smooth transition when moving into a tableless structure. For example, moving to a completely CSS structure would cause many headaches for customers not familiar with CSS.

i'm of the same feeling, tables could be cut down, but i don't see a need for a full removal.

I would love to see complete removal of <table>s but now it's not the time.

A tableless structure will help with speed.
A tableless structure will help with bandwidth.
A tableless structure will help with SEO.
A tableless structure will help with personalization. (lol, personal preference)

i'd love to see them add more tables. the more the better. i have a hard time doing what i want with div's/layers tables are so much easier for this oldschool person.

Can someone explain if they did get rid of al ltables jsut how much faster it would be? Are we talking faster load times, less disk space, less server load? What?

:dead:

LMAO

i only have basic knowledge of div's but float >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet.

An html page full of tables: 30kb
The same page without tables (divs/css): 19kb

Is 19kb faster? sure is
Will it use less disk space? sure does (less data on saved in database)
Less bandwidth? yep -- do the math ;)
Less server load? not really

tableless layouts are treated as text -- what I mean is that your browser will display the first character as soon as it reads it

with tables (it depends on code and the browser you use) ...
some content may not be displayed until the last character within table is read

tableless layouts can be viewed on all modern appliances (pdas, etc)

Three w00ts for sabe!

Thank you for breaknig it down.


So pretty much the only thing you are saving is b/w and disk space and giving pda's the ability to use it? Bah. This seems to be someone jsut lookngi for something to complain about.

He gave a small file for example but think about it in a much larger scale.

you are not looking at the BIGGER picture...

It's faster!
It is well documented that if you do not 'grab' your users within the first 10 seconds you loose them. On most sites, the first 10 seconds is wasted on rendering the page.

What did you say? I spent the first ten seconds staring the BIGGER and missed the rest.


:rolleyes:


I know my site takes forever to load. Would be nice .

I want to redo my site into divs because at the most it's nested 5 tables deep.
And yeah, I already know about CSSZenGarden and W3C, but if anyone could offer some more aid in the forms of either other resources and/or actual help, it'd be much appreciated :) My CSS skillz suck beyond measuring :p


I'd applaud this change in vB because I really REALLY don't see the reason to support IE4 since whoever is still using IE4 doesn't deserve to live :p

We need to support IE4+.

Someone showed a tableless phpbb design, it crashed in IE5:2 Mac, which is baslcy IE5/5.5, which doesn't cut it.

Filip the best way to learn CSS is to just read the vast amounts of information which are now online, and then if you get stuck as on SitePoint, they have some real CSS gurus there who have never failed me in the past :D!

Gurus, Magicians, Gauntlets o_0.

vB Castle :-D

HTML Utopia: Designing Without Tables Using CSS, it's a site point book, and a great one at that. Very well worth the money. :up:

That was me. And I wouldn't use a style that only worked for some users.

That's ludicrous, it can be done. However, the requirements are not smart. The layout need not be perfectly replicated as you are not forced to use tables except for tabular data.

I can easily make a layout for vB that is entirely tableless that renders properly in W3C-compliant browsers. However, editing thousands of templates that use variables assumed to be used in a given context is not a thought I relish.

Note I have said before I understood why they use tables: compatibility. However, that is a blow in the face to semantic markup.

That line is a joke, they all don't have it 100% right, firefox, opera, IE.

Others do, do it better than some. But the simple fact of the matter is, IE is the dominant browser period. Firefox, is not going to take 100% the market anytime soon. I don't see it continuing to grow that much either.

The layout does need to look as close as possible between all browsers.

Fight Fight Fight Fight!!!!

/me runs and hides from vB magicians :-D

why the need to support ie4? i understand 5.5 and can barely stretch my imagination to 5 but 4 is just ridiculous. seriously how many people would want someone on their site using such an old browser :lol:

saying that you need to cut your ties sometimes, look how many programs were left -IE6 incompatible including MS's very own Outlook

Tables rule ;)

Satan

Where's Wayne's post gone?

A lot of corporate machines are still stuck in the past.

With the realease of IE7, I believe support for the older browsers would drop.
don't hold me on that ;)

i personally know not one organisation running -IE5.5 and the ones i do only do so because they've got branded versions :smh: but even so it's IE4, please someone tell me who uses IE4, i'm sure there was a site which managed to show browser usage stats.

On Webmaster-Talk, our stats show there 7714 hits from people using <IE5 from this year.

Albeit, it is a very small chunk of users.

chroder how do you define a 'hit' comming from your statistic software? is it per view per ip per 24hrs? or just raw hits?

Why support dial-up users? I mean honestly, who would want someone to browse their forum with dial-up? :rolleyes: