Be Careful_ Deposit Gone!!
 

As a new comer to this VB forum game, I have had one heck of a time getting a person to help customize my forum for my business. Something that I thought would be a relatively easy and fun process.

Recently after delay, delay and delay, a person that I had hired walked with my deposit. After looking at this person’s website and speaking with him at length I never would have suspected that I would have had this problem.

After posting here a kind soul finally jumped and in less than 24 hrs he had the work on my website. This was a 17 year old kid with more hard working ethics and ability to get the work done, than I have seen in anyone. A true pro!!!

He produced examples of what he had in mind with my input- We then agreed on a price and refund the work. He installed the work on my website and I paid him immediately afterwords with Paypal for each segment completed. Since I run a reputable business with a high profile he knew he was going to get his money.

As for my lost deposit I am filing a complaint with Paypal as well as a complaint with the Texas attorney's Generals office. I will also contact Better Business in Texas.

The bottom line: NEVER pay for work ahead of time in my honest opinion. This means a deposit up front as well. I went through several people before getting to the guy I have now. Money up front is not good at all!!

As for the coders out there ...I can say that there is a problem with this type of thing that hurts all of you. I think there are a ton of reputable people on this forum but my experience was very negative almost causing me to dump vBulletin all together. Since this forum is a main hub for our technical support infrastructure we will undoubtedly spend a ton of money with this current coder to upgrade out feature and hacks over the next couple of years......A sweet account for a 17 year old kid. He will also receive my highest recommendation as well as cross promotion and a testimonial for his website. With the fast growing high profile of our business this will be a boon to him as well.

Be careful everyone!!!

PS: Please feel free to PM me for more info. on this matter.

Was the original coder from here and if so who was it?

I have a feeling he will not answer that in public.

heh, nobody pays ahead dude

I dont want t flame fest but it will make it easier to document for those who may inquire into their help in the future. A lot of people will do a search for that person's name here to establish credibility.

I talked to LNON via PM and he said the person who took his deposit was *** Removed (MarcoH64) *** anyone ever heard of him? Cause I know I haven't.

Never.

<i>removed links - Colin
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Satan

Not everyone shares your opinion, esp those who have to do the work - and could then find that they don't get paid at all.

(In case you are wondering, no I haven't suffered this myself, I have always been paid, but i know people who haven't).

Do you take post dated checks? :ninja:

I normally won't even do work with out a 50% deposit of projected costs, and that deposit covers any work I do up untill the point you like the finish product, or you don't want my work. (all part of the contract)

Yeah but for your level of credibility allows for such a request.

Well, there are as many dishonest customers as there as dihonest coders, if not more. And that hurts customers as well. Many similar stories can be said for customers who never pay after delivery, and this is why many developers insist on a percentage in advance.

Depending on the size of the job and factors about the credibility of the client, I normally charge a Deposit...

If a client was someone I knew well and trusted, I may levy that deposit if I know they will pay at the end of the project ;)

Satan

I'm another that does not accept any project without a 50% deposit.

I do however, offer (toll-free) telephone support, a paypal business account, a registered business in the state of NJ, and, if requested--references (from accountants, store owners, vb members, etc) ...

Here's a good list in conjunction with what is already here when looking for hired help:

1. View current work that coder has done.
2. View coder's responses to questions posted here.
3. How long has the coder been a vb member?
4. Ask for full name/address
5. Hire people locally (county, state, nation)
6. Hire only those that you can verify ... if in doubt, do not hire
7. Ask for references
8. Ask for a telephone number (very important - you can verify address/locality of person with a phone number)
9. A big PLUS -- Depending on type of project make sure coder has a good understanding of USABILITY ... without usability in mind great projects fail.

VBcore - Respectfully - You should not have published his name in this forum. There is still a chance that he will see the error here and refund at least a portion of my moneymy money. Now that you have published his name the damage is done.

My intent was to warn others to be careful NOT to start a flame war or bring the petty details of this into this forum. I had hope that he would see that if he did not work with me on this his reputation would suffer by word of mouth.

As with any story there are two sides. In this persons defence, I know he did not start out to defraud me. I was hoping most of all he would learn a bit of a lesson from this matter and bemore careful in the future.

I regret sharing his name with you in confidence VBcore and would not have done so if I thought you where going to publish it in the forum. I respectfully ask you or the moderators to remove that.

For what it is worth, name removed.

vBCore, if LNON chooses not to make that name public, you should not go against that wish.

I concur ... I do think it was wrong in posting the name.

Can you imagine if this type of flaming was aloud? Reputation can be tarnished without a word from all parties AND we don't even know all the facts.

Its threads like this that will pressure him to refund your money to save face. Kind of wierd to post a thread saying you were ripped off and then refuse to give out the name so another person can get ripped off. What if he had done this before and that person didnt post what happened so then he ripped you off? How would that make you feel?

He did offer to give more details in PM, and it is his good right (and i personally thin a very professional attitude towards this) to do so. And it is more that people are aware of the risks when offering or accepting an online agreement, then that a name have to be mentioned. This can be a one time slip.

If this kind of reports are made often against a certain member, i am sure Staff would try to hear both parties and if reason to do so give a warning with name. That has happened in the past also.

Oh ok.

I understand your concern. It seems unfair to jump right to "hard ball" without giving this guy the chance to "save face" as you put it. Hard ball is always an option....I just don't think it should be the first option.

Well for example I dont always check this forum but instead I do a search under my names and respond.

I always accept 50% deposit first. Part of the terms. No deposit, no go, simple as that. I only waive the 50% deposit on certain recurring clients whom I know I can work well with, and who are good for the money. Sometimes it's all about gut feel.

I have rejected some clients as well in the past even though they were willing to pay the 50% deposit, simply cos 'it just did not feel right'.

In this sort of thing, I always believe it involves mutual trust on both ends. Of course, while easily said, it is not always the case in real life dealing with people you've never met over the internet.

I always take a 50% deposit and sign a contract outlying the terms in which this deposit can be returned (should I fall ill, or have to leave for a period of time etc).

Maybe he has had some sort of an emergency or something. You do not give details on how long this has gone on etc..... If he is as thorough as you say maybe you should give him the benifit of the doubt???

Besides, not all customers are all that trustworthy either. Often requests are changed midstream and things are added etc.... it is not always as cut and it could be...

50% before and the rest after works... nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

What is wrong with posting his name here anyways? Let him defned himnself... maybe he has good reason and maybe we'd be even doing him a favor by mentioning his name..

How you guys do business is up to you...as consumers though, we need to be careful and warn each other of potential problem... I strongly disagree with the idea of PayPal-ing someone 50% of a project across state lines. I am in discussion with a Texas firm for a $25,000 website rework and they will start with nothing up front. If I get my way though, we'll keep VB and Tim, the guy who has worked magic on my forum design.

This is not the first time that I have hired someone over the net, since starting my business and have been ripped off by shoddy workmanship. Both times it was a person who appeared reputable, knowledgeable and had great references....references do not mean squat if they botch YOUR project....

As for this guy being sick, he is not.We have spoken many times via email regarding this botched project. There is not debate at this point...the guy quit said here is what I have done so far- take it or leave it. It was unusable to me.

I realize that there are alway two sides of the coin out there, as I run a business myself. I also won an award for customer service my first year in business. I have never stopped a project, then stiffed someone on a deposit.

This person did appear to be legit and my conversations with him were great. I really felt he could at least done a passable job. I should have gotten the first clue when he put 4 to 6 weeks in his proposal, after I had made it clear to him that I needed it right away. After clarifying with him that he would be starting immediately I gave him a deposit. I really trusted him.

You should see the banner graphic they tried to give me. A second grade kit could have done it. Thats when I started to boil over at this "propeller head" and his next email he clearly stopped the project...now he denies that he terminate the project.

As for posting his name, I made an ethics call there. You may not agree. How many times in life I made a kick to the groin when a punch in the face would do. It is not in my nature to harm people ...it is also not in my nature to be bullied or ripped off.

**** Update*****

After many emails and threatening this guy I did manage to get back less than half of my deposit back after offering to settle for half...He still felt the need to short me by a few bucks...what an idiot.

I am now going to bow out of this thread and consider this resolved. I need to focus on business. I would suggest steering clear of this guy and you can PM me for more info.