I'm just curious.
 

I'm a professional designer. I've been at it for years. Mostly print design but lately more and more web-based design.

I run a forum and a couple web sites so I'm always surfing vBulletin sites to see if there are any new hacks or template mods I may find handy.

As I look around the sites I constantly see requests for skin designers. And I also see the skin sites. The thing that really amazes me is that people offer $20 - $50 for a logo and skin design. I'm curious of people are really working for that amount of money. I understand the skin retail sites sell skins for around $30 but I assume volume makes up for that price. I would never even think of creating a logo for anyone for $50.

Do custom designs really only run $30 in the vBulletin community?

Thanks.

The reason why the skins you see on skin sites are $30 is because they are pre-made. Pre-made meaning, made beforehand for no site in-particular. With a custom design, you're making a skin for that site only, with their ideas. And generally in the vBulletin community, custom skins (images, style and everything included) go for $100+

and also, premade skins can be sold to more than one person, or companies.

the custom skins are only made for a specific community, and will NOT be sold to another person or company.

I realize premade skins are dealt with in quantity. I posted that, in fact. I was just curious if the individuals that stop by and post "I need a logo and skin for $40" actually get work. In my opinion a logo alone is at least $500, the skin (based on my skinning my own forum) would be at least another $500-$1500.

I was mearly curious if there were those working for as little as $30.

$500 for a logo is like paying $100,000 for a stock toyota celica. that's bloody outrageous, anyone who would pay that much deserves to be slapped, but thats just my opinion, and i'm entitled to it. i cant see anyone paying more than $75 for a logo, and i think thats still high.

Even $75 is outrageous to me, I can say something looks good, but it can look just as good as the free ones I see floating around. Why pay for something I can get, or make myself, for free?

$500 for just a logo? That IS outrageous. Nobody will pay $500 for one logo. $500 for a professional skin (The WHOLE thing including images and such) is a bit more acceptable, but it's still alot.

Ahh, well, you guys obviously don't deal with professional designers. $500 for a logo is cheap. Really cheap. Remember I'm not talking about a 16 year old with Photoshop creating it. I'm speaking of a professionally designed logo.

I guess I got the answer I was after.... Yes, the vBulletin community isn't one where professional designers are considered necessary.

Thanks.

ScottW, there are many professional designers in the vBulletin community. You are not the only one to exist. A decent professional design goes for $200 and onwards, but rarely over $500. These prices do NOT mean they are not professional, it's just the general standard in the vBulletin community. These are not designs for sites, you're editing a forum. It's two different things.

If you really expect someone to pay $500 for a header logo, and you think that's cheap, then you must realise it's far from cheap. Don't expect anything cheaper than your $500 logo to be "un-professional," they might just be as good as anything you can create.

The only time i've seen a design exceed over $500 was the hideously overpriced & overrated YaXaY design.

I do style design for anywhere from 50-350 us dollars. Mainly around 100 but this is because, like tony said, your EDITING A FORUM, not making an entire site from scratch, and about the logo's I work in advertizing so yes i know about that stuff and logos are the price you say BUT, on a forum community where the software costs 160 then the site and the host and the everything behind it you cant afford to buy all these huge logos and style design jobs.

Logo 50-75

Entire Style Design 200-400

I'm sorry. I simply disagree. I understand this community won't bear real pricing. That's fine and not a problem. I don't mean to indicate that there aren't other professionals here either or that I'm the only one. However, a logo is one's calling card to the world regardless of whether it's for a forum or not. A logo is a logo is a logo. Rest assured I won't be forcing my prices on anyone in the vBulletin community. I was just curious, as the thread topic indicates. And I'm not trying to demean anyone who is working so cheap. That is their choice. However the Graphics Artists Guild and AIGA would be really displeased with a designer creating logos for $50. It devalues the entire profession as a whole. This is completely regardless of what the forum software costs. No logo is used for ONLY the forum. Arguing that your prices need to be lower because of what the client has already spent.. is.. well.... silly. My gas prices aren't lower because I spend $15,000 on a new car.

I do understand the entire "editing a forum" argument where a style is concerned. And somewhat agree with it. I could see a couple hundred dollars to simply alter buttons.

I wasn't trying to be so contoversial.

like tony said, you are not the only professional designer, i consider myself a professional designer, and would never think of charging a cent over $75 for a logo, money has no say in whether you are professional or not, its the quality of your work.

Josh your not really a profesional designer, i know one, and a logo for 75 bucks is insanely cheep, not somthing most designers will do.

You have a Degree? from anywhere? or at least certifcations? who are your big clients?

500 us for a logo is nothing to sneeze at in the coprate world.

True in the corporate world 500 is a good deal

Ive actually found a logo corp that does logo design and their BASE rate is 750 all the way up to 5000

One last thing, like Scott said. A logo is a calling card of sorta, this of At&t or SBC or Yahoo they all have UNIQUE logos, and they probably paid a great deal of money for those

Scott, would you mind showing a logo that you have designed. I am quite curious as to what a $500 dollar logo would amount to...

Thanks.

Me too :D

Show you what Ive done? Why? So you can tell me it's worth $30. Honestly, if you're happy working for as little as $2/hour or less... more power to you.

True. Money isn't the determining factor. But the quality if work is. If you are creating good quality of work you're probably spending more than 30 hours on the project. You must to create something as intricate as a logotype. So.. let's see... 30 hours... for a final cost of $75 equates to $2.50 and hour. Again.. those are not professional rates. That's not even minimum wage in any state. Honestly, the only way I could EVER see $75 being justified is if you are a starting designer and created the logo in under an hour, maybe two hours. And if you are indeed a starting designer creating logos in less than two hours, the quality is not good. It simply can't be. Sure it may be a pretty picture but not a logo.

For the record, I mean "professional" in the terms that you make your living, put food on the table, pay your bills, and self-promote all with the income generated from your design work either as freelance or under the employment of someone else. Simply getting $50 to make an image for someone does not classify anyone as a professional. Hobbyists can make money on their hobby without being professionals.

If you've spent that much time on a logo, why are you so nervous about showing us? You spent 30 hours on the logo! It has got to be amazing, if not better than any logo on any vB I have seen.

heh... any professional creating a logo should be spending that much time. That is my entire point.

Even at only 10 hours that's $7.50 an hour. Still way too cheap.

The only reason you think it's cheap is because you're thinking of the time you spend on it. No client tells you how long to spend on a logo, and it looks like you're in control of that. So why should they pay $500 because you take 30 hours to create a logo? Sure, 30 hours, such care, but I doubt I'd see a client tell you 'work 30 hours on my logo for $500' you are the one who pushes that. And once again, your professionalism is not determined about the amount you charge or how long you spend on your logo, it's the finished product. I don't think it even looks professional to backup your work by the amount you charge and time you spent on it.

I agree with ScottW on the prices - not saying that I charge that much because I don't think I'm good enough at logos to charge that much, but if I were offered a job at doing a logo for 100$ I wouldn't take it. It just isn't enough for a unique logo in my opinion. As for styles - making a header and footer with color switches gets me around 150$, doing a complete skin gets me 300$ and I know people who go for much more - take ravio for example(before he "went bad") people were paying him up to 5000$ for forum skin designs.

Logos are generally priced per project, not hourly. I was using the per hour rates to express a point. Factors that contribute to the cost of the logo are size of client, market area, nature of client, complexity of desired design (1 color, 2 color, 4 color). None of these factors will ever equal a $75 logo. The research alone that should go into making a unique mark for a client would constitute more than $75 in itself.

I can see that in the corporate world, designing might be this expensive, and it probably is. But not all vBulletin are run by big corporations, they are run by ordinary people who express an interest in the concept of their forum. Corporations may pay so much, but others may not.

I didn't mean to get in your way or anything. I was merely suggesting what the 'trend' is.

NO, id like to see some of your work, i like to just see what ther ppl are doing, and like i already siad, i know in the corporate area that logos are worth a lot, so if anything id tell you OMG THATS AWSOME :p

normal ppl wouldnot spend that much money on a logo, or a site. most ppl run their personal forums.

well and cuz Im Broke ( 16 yrz old ) :p lol

I spend money extremely fast

That doesnt mean a profesinal designer is going to charge less.

I think Zachery gets my point. I'm glad someone does.

^_^ of course i get it, ive worked with professional designers, me and my fathers friend was a long time employee of BP, British Peterolium (sp?) now Better Peterolium, or somthing like that, and he did almost all their work, and he got paid very very well. after leaving he started his own business. But i know how much he charges for sites / logos, hes not cheep, He has art degrees amoung other things, and his skill rivals very few. hell, hes been using photoshop since version 2 or 3 ;D

Have you done work for anyone besides corporations/companies/businesses?

I've been using Photoshop since version 2.0.7, Illustrator since AI88 and have done work forthe US Olympic Commitee, The Department of the Army, and others. I'm not against lower prices for certain situations. I've given away work and I've given huge discounts for some. I simply find it striking when an entire community is undercutting themselves in general practice. I just feel anyone who approaches someone for a logo should be asked to at least pay reasonable market prices. It supports the graphic industry as a whole. the more people can ask for and recieve a logo for $30 the harder it is to actually get the industry valued as it should be.

I've enjoyed this discussion. I hope I haven't offended anyone in the process.

You havent offened me in anyway and i return the same to you, i hope i havent offened you.

I really would like to see some of your work that youve done and maybe i could pass the word on to others about you. ( and yes at your price, cuz that is a resoanable price )

Please PM me, id love to see some of them

I have enjoyed this also.

PM me the logos please!

Sorry. I won't be sending any work through private messages. The work i've done is not relevent to the conversation. If you'd care to see profesional work pick up a copy of Print, HOW, or Communications Art magazine.

no i mean you can contact me and maybe show a screeny

Same here. I don't want to just see professional work, I want to see what you've done. Or, just show me a website that you have designed their logo.

This is not asking too much... :cool:

My work is not relevent to this conversation.