VB Webmaster - Give us a Look Please
 

Do you run your vBulletin community like a hobbiest or a professional? Are you interested in getting members or having your web site do the job for you?

If you are a professional interested in getting your community to grow using proven methods and group based tools, you need to give VB Webmaster a look.

Take your communuty from a group of friends to an internet authority site.

Join VB Webmaster .

Hmm? Shouldn't a post in our "forum commenting" area ask people to give comments or feedback about the site design, layout, content, or something? Looks like this was posted only for promotional purposes to recruit new members.

Not sure if that's appropriate here... anyone?

It's fine here :)

Thanks, Dean ;)

If you are intent on running a site devoted to vBulletin, you should name the product itself consistenly. The preferred abbreviation is "vB", not "VB" (which is commonly used for Visual Basic--something completely unrelated to vBulletin).

Same point with vBulletin, not VBulletin. It may seem trivial but not to everybody. :)

I went over this with a 16 y/o, I wish I didn't have to explain. The link is not targeting humans. It's for other reasons.

We know very well what the spelling of vBulletin looks like, but it really don't matter to someone that don't know or a search engine. ;)

If someone is so closed minded that they don't want to know why or understand why, we probably can't help them.

Thanks

Capitilization doesn't matter to a search engine either, so why not be consistent like filburt said and keep to vB?

I didn't name the forum, I just support it. Joe did the anchors. Trust me, with his experience and success, it's an example worth following.

I'm not trying to be argumentive, but there are more then one reason for anything. I use vBulletin when conversing usually.

This is argumentive, if you can't see past the spelling of a word for a title or anchor, you're not ready for growth. Keep an open mind.

My goal is to own every variation of the keyword vbulletin no matter how it's capitalized.

Thanks Dean.

I'm not trying to be arguementative either. Just pointing something out :) No offence intended. Check this out, exactly the same results:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Which proves my point ;)

I didn't say your point was invalid. You are correct that the engine is not case sensitive. However, the human eye is. Someone that is searching for VB/vbulletin is probably not aware that vB is spelled a certain way(even if they are, we got that covered too), they are looking for a keyword or phrase.

It's subjective, but we have got a better change of hitting a flying bird with a shotgun then a rifle.

Imagine how many ways we can say vbulletin and make it look. Trade marks aside, cause we can't borrow copyrighted logos for our advertising, does coke or pepsi run only one ad?

We all tent to think like admins, that is a bad mindset to get into. If your target is admins, then stick with it. Some of us are targeting regular folks though, they do not think or act or search like us admins do.

Well from a user-standpoint, VB = visual basic, so that could be confusing to the end-user also :)

Yes, as I said though, it is subjective. What is so bad about traffic from confusion? There are firms that make money off of mis-spelled keywords too. ;) My guests pay the bills, not my members. Ironic huh?

Traffic is more important then members. I've become of the opinion that members revolve/evolve around good content. A good site does not depend on members for content. I'm sure that will happen as a site grows, but a startup cannot depend on it. Community sections of a site are not often the part of a site that gets them ranked as an authority site.

That's not to say membership is not important to a community by any means. After all, that is the point.

Well, IMO (;)) VB is not a good keyword to target if that's the keyword you're looking to bring traffic in off. I looked through the first two pages of that google search and not one result even remotely based around vBulletin. You're right, all traffic is good traffic, but you're not going to get to the top of the search engines targetting such a popular keyword :)!

Once again you are not thinking in the big picture, this is not about vb or vbulletin alone. As I asked already, how many ways can you use that set of initials and word in a phrase?

Let's forget vbulletin and use widget instead.

If you can't come up with about 400 ways to do it in one, two and three word phrases, you aint trying.

You are absolutly correct in saying chasing vbulletin or vb alone may be a waste of time, but use it in a phrase and it becomes very possible.

Noppid, I guess it depends upon who you are targetting. Most people who are heavy into computers & programming will see "VB Webmaster" as "Visual Basic Webmaster" but if you're target audience is people who use vBulletin only and aren't familiar with programming tools then, yeah, maybe they'll interpret it as "vBulletin Webmaster" like you're hoping.

Personally I and most of the other site owners that I know would skip right over a listing of "VB" because to us it denotes Visual Basic. <shrug>

I am wondering if they also have this discussion on the new Chinese nitelluBv site ;)

Oh, I love it. Here I thought I was being too fussy for asking my forum commenting question ;)

(Yeah, I know... that really was fussy. But thanks all for not giving me a hard time over it. lol)

I completely disagree with noppid and their seeming disregard for the vB brand. The use of the brand vB is the way Jelsoft is building their brand. You do not have a right to change the image of the brand based on your ideas or opinions, no matter how valid you might think they are without the permission of Jelsoft.

I kindly suggest that noppid should ask Jelsoft if it is OK for noppid to have a site which changes the vB brand image.

We would not do it, under any circumstances, because it violates the intellectural property rights of Jelsoft.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I have no idea what you are talking about. Jelsoft have not copyrighted "vB" as a trademark. noppid is entitled to use exactly how he wishes. We're just having a friendly discussion about it!

Thanks Dean, I'm enjoying it too. It's opening my mind to new ideas and possible shortfalls in the premise. The more we can consider, the more we can make use of targeting.

As for copyright, this is not about a logo. It is not about stealing a branding or adulterating it. It's about being a part of it. This can be any brand, idea, or subject.

When you talk about a brand, you are not bound to credit the copyright holder or spell it a certain way or even use the logo. So I don't see any problem with that part.

In fact since we're stuck on the vB part of this, with all due respect to Jelsoft, any path to vB that comes to us, leads to Jelsoft. I'd hope that they see this in a positive light.

But if we apply this to widgets, we have a great converstaion about what you can do to be in the search engines in regard to any subject. That is one of the hottest topics we have on vB Webmaster currently. (better?)

Obviously you are a great guy, but have little knowledge about intellectual property. Let me ask you, how many trademarks do you hold? What is your professional experience in brand development and management?

If you had a brand,would you like people to change the look and feel of the brand without authorization, even without a trademark?

If you actually had a brand you developed, and you spend spent years developing it, you would know exactly what I am talking about :banana:

"Burst my bubble"... I'm ROTFL over such folly ... All I do is speak the facts based on years of experience and lots of money paid to IP attorneys :D

( just look at the copyright at the bottom of your forum pages, and Jelsoft's fees to have that one little notice removed.... )

I'm sorry but I still do not see where you are going with this. noppid is not breaking any law here by using the word vB on his site. vB is not a registered trademark and noppid is entitled to use it as he wishes in whatever context he wishes. Can you please explain yourself because from your first post in this thread it seems like you're talking utter nonsense... No offence intended :)

The above post explains things quite nicely.

This post is the correct view.

Sorry, but if you guys don't understand this statement, no offense, you are either not in business or have no experience with brands.

As filburt1 kindly pointed out, you should refer to Jelsoft products and anything related to their products as vBulletin or vB... not VBulletin, or VB, etc.

And again, if you have a question or doubt, simply ask the Jelsoft business office what *they* would prefer. vB and vBulletin are Jelsoft's brand, not yours nor mine.

:banana:

This is pure conjecture. Show me a case to prove your statement. No one is going to regulate a keyword or conversation relative to a trademark or tradmarked product. It's been tried just recently with google adwords campaigns and is expected to fail in the courts.

Nice try though.

You are, interestly enough, looking at the words used on a web site and then twisting your distortion of a brand into a Google key word discussion.

We are talking, or at least I thought we were, about a web site that refers to vBulletin as VBulletin. I am not discussing Google ad words and key words, and neither was the other poster who is also commenting (or at least that was my interpretation).

In fact, I though we were discussing this site:

http://www.vbwebmaster.com/

and their use of the phrase VBulletin v. vBulletin and also their use of VB v. vB.

So, it seems we are simply taking past each other.... oddly enough, or we are IP Einstein's trying to explain IP branding 101 to folks without experience in intellectual property rights and branding (sorry to repeat this, theme).

Neo

I should have rephrased my original post (still kindly, mind you);
If it is a matter of not willing to change the numerous references in graphics and such, I would argue that the effort required falls far below the resulting professionalism.

To further re-iterate my point, noppid can't possibly be infringing any laws/trademarks by putting VB instead of vB. It's his forum, he can do what he likes with it :) I mean what more is there to say about this? It's his choice if he wants to do so, I personally wouldn't but there you go :)

Well I participate, It's Joe's. We just happen to hang out alot and talk about the same things. He thought a place for folks like us would be cool. I think so too. There is alot of room for growth and we can't be everything to everybody I guess.

Anyhow, for me it was about variations to catch the eye in this discussion. If a webmaster can't see past marketing to particiapte in quality discussions, then that webmaster probably has nothing to contribute.

Marketing and advertising are hard work and it works. It's easy to dismiss if you don't do it or understand it.

I think Unix is trying to say that by establishing vbwebmaster.cominregards to vBulletin itself (the prime utilization of the softwarebywebmasters) it should associate everything relative to Jelsoft anditsbrands as accurately as possible. For example, you would notaddressMicrosoft Windows, and Microsoft Window (I know in this case itsamissing letter, but its the same idea), the term Windows is abrandestablished by Microsoft, and people refer to it as so.

Another similar example, iPod. I address it as iPod as that iswhatApple has created. It has created the brand iPod. It's a name, andwhenyou refer to iPod you refer to it the way Apple has projected it.

Something like this, is like a person's name. My name is Arunan,mindyou if it was written as ArunAn, I would expect to be refered to asso.

I think, instead of trying to substantiate your reasons touseVBulletin, you should use a basis of common sense, and refer toaproduct as it was titled by the developers.

Now, let me take another tone; I am not telling you to do anything,itis just my view on this topic, and your opinion to use VBulletinisyours, I see it as wrong, you see it as right...you are freetocontinue using VBulletin, but when you associate yourself withanotherbrand, the common thing to do is take on its entity as it hasbeen set by the creators.

Furthermore, I guess your point (or the person who createdVBulletinWebmaster) of trying to look past the name for the content isa very unique way to approach it...but I guess to maximize your traffic(if I read properly, traffic is your main purpose) you have to do whatthe users like and wouldn't mind.

You might want to look at it this way, by keeping it at VBulletin youwill get a handful of members, whom do not mind at all the way you haveit, and like your content, but changing it to vBulletin, you will stillgain that same handful of members who wouldn't of minded the VBulletinvariation, but you will then set your self up to attract alot morewebmasters who are very thorough of the vBulletin brand.

You don't loose much by changing from VBWebmaster to vBWebmaster.

Actually, it is just the opposite of what you state. What "catches the eye." for some of us, is that you have little to no respect for Jelsoft, the vB brand or the vB community. That is what "caught my eye". You asked for an opinion, so be please be collaborative enough in your replies to at least respect the opinions you get from experts in the field (and not call them nonsense, LOL.).

In addition, you might consider reading the current literature on the concept of "Business Ecosystems". There is a lot of literature on this subject and to summarize the context here (vis-a-vis vB):

vBulletin is becoming (or is) a large business ecosystem of developers and users, based on the open nature and vision of Jelsoft and vB. The brand of this ecosystem is important because the brand identifies the *community*. All of us benefit from the ecosystem and the branding of the ecosystem, just like a well balanced lake is a healthy biological ecosystem.

So, here we are, we are patiently explaining to a poster, who asked for an opinion, about two important concepts in business, namely (1) branding and brand identity and (2) business ecosystems.

If this thread continues, we will be soon be talking about cooperative agents, cooperative game theory, markets, and economics, LOL. The posters will end up with an honorary degree in net-centric architecture and business ecosystems in an information economy, laughing out loud, if we keep this up for a few weeks or months!

Instead an on-line masters degree course work here, let's close with the concept of "community". The community is identified by vB and vBulletin, and not VB and VBulletin. Please respect the community and be a part of it, and help keep the vB ecosystem healthy.

Thank you.

Neo

I can't answer for either of those posts regarding the branding of the site. That is not my call.

But I will tell you this, it will be something I bring up. I've heard enough about the site branding to "get it".

I still think it's a useful mis-use for association using keywords though.

Mikerowsoft also misused a brand. vBulletin is the brand. vB is just an abbreviation that us users gave to it.
The first thing I think about when I see vb, vB or VB is Visual Basic and not vbulletin. I am sure this is true of many more people.

The first thing I think about when I see VB is Visual Basic, the firstthing that comes to mind when I see vB is vBulletin - as you can seemany people see many different things; it is up to you as a webmasterand owner of the site to find an equal balance where you satisfy everyuser, while knowing 100% that the site strictly protrays what itstrives to refrence.

That's because you are part of the vbulletin community. If you weren't you wouldn't connect the 2.
Do a search on Google for vB and see what you get.

I say use the vbulletin defaul template and the logo similar to vbulletin... that way people will connect the site iwth vbulletin it right away... and not with visual basic.. just my 2 cents

Interesting you say that, cause I would have done that if it was mine I believe.

Precisely. First of all, Google searches are not case-sensitive. Quote from Google:

So, vB or VB or vb or Vb does not make a difference as far a Google goes.

With regard to VB as related to visual basic, yes, Jelsoft and vBulletin have not yet surpassed Microsoft, laughing out loud, but that does not mean that vB is not a brand for Jelsoft or could not be trademarked. In fact, I just searched TESS at www.uspto.com and noticed that vBulletin was not trademarked (Jelsoft, I would do this immediately if I were you) and noticed there are lots of vB trademarks (I would trademark this for virtual electronic and on-line communties if I were you). You greatly improve the strength and value your brand(s) by trademarks.

Just because VB is a brand for a programming language does not mean that vB is not a brand for virtual communties. Both can co-exisit as trademarks. Good Coders are not necessarily the best business people and the reverse is also true too!

PM me if you want a great TM (intellectual property) attorney in the US. I know one of the best with one of the top firms in the US.

Peoples eyes are case sensitive. I'll continue to mix up my anchors. That is what this was about, maximizing viewability of your link amoung 10's of other links. But that seems to have gotten lost in a brand loyalty/trademark argument.

I'll type pepsi, coke, microsoft, vb, vbulletin or any other word the way I please when I discuss it. No attorney can stop me. :D

Jelsoft is based in the UK and therefore I don't believe they can register a trademark in the US.

Of course they can. Any company can register a trademark in the US. I deal with TM attorneys on a weekly basis. See below:

Reference: USPTO

Normally, this means the attorney in the US who represents the TM applicant.....

Also, from the USPTO site:

As I recall, we were not discussing attorneys, we were discussing communities and branding. I am simply, in this part of the thread, providing some guidance on TM rights in the US because I like Jelsoft and their brand and want to see them do well.

And yes, if Jelsoft wanted to, they could pay an attorney to stop you from discussing their products using VB on a web site with big graphics, etc. (note, we are not simply talking about a casual conversation, we are taking about your website where you associate yourself with Jelsoft and vB). They certainly have that right, absolutely, even without a TM. Isn't this your graphic on your new website?

http://www.vbwebmaster.com/VBWBanner2.jpg

However, with a TM, they can get a summary judgement against you, if they wanted to, in a US federal court. Of course, they surely don't because you are small and have no important business model that is effecting their brand integrity (today).

You are simply talking about things you have no knowledge about, noppid. True knowledge is understanding what you do not know and the wisdom to listen to those who do. In this case, you show disrespect for the vB community by your attitude of "na nah na nah na, noppid can do want ever he wants ... na nah na nah na..."

Go back and read the other posts where we discussed this in depth ...... thanks (I'm trying hard to be patience, but it is difficult for me considering your fu attitude towards Jelsoft's brand and identity ...)