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vb.org consent..
I think vBulletin.org should email all members who have created a hack for vb2 and inform them that they only have two months to submit a working version of there hack for vb3. Because I feel like we are being cut out of hacks because you have creators who no longer care to work on there hacks. I have even talked to a few creators of hacks for vb2 and they said they have no time to create a working version for vb3, and then I ask them if it would be okay for another member to do it, and they said no.
Now this is really unfair, because they choose not to upgrade there hack, and we are stuck because the creator wont let other members migrate the hack for vb3. I am wondering what vBulletin.org plans to do about this? |
i doubt they would do that.. however, if there is a hack you want, and the original author won't update his, write your own.. make it do all the same things.. as long as you don't copy his code, you are ok, i believe.. i am aware of intellectual property, but i am also aware that a lot of people look for a lot of the same things.. you can't limit ideas just because someone else has the same idea.. so go for it, i say..
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No one holds the patient for an idea. If you are not using ANY of the code from the vb2 version (which you probably wouldn't) then I say go for it weather you are given "permission" or not.
Dark Shogun |
If I would create a hack that has been done in vb2, and release it for vb3, will it be removed?
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I seriously doubt it.
Dark Shogun |
as long as you say it's based off the idea of a vb2 hack and that none of the code from the original hack is contained within yours, what the heck can they say? stop coming up with ideas?
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it may be, but if the code isn't the same you'll be fine.
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Are you referring to any vB2 hacks in particular?
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Thats lame idea. IMO
-Think of all the VB2 users that plan not to update to VB3. They will be out in the cold. - Fork up some "green backs" $40-50$ and I am sure anyone would build you what you need. Time is money. If you can not live w/o a Hack to make your site run like you wish revert to Vb2 or pay ? -This site is full of people that take time out of their life to give some love to other "members" that own VB by making add-on's. You have no right to "Demand" anything. -Lastly, you can do what I did. RTFM and take the reins in you own hands by learning some of the LANG needed to work on your own site. Its not rocket science. (If I have no clue: I look it up, ask questions, search google, php.net, mysql.org, MIRC in #php, drink another beer and come back to it later :D ) You will find that more people love to help other people that try and fail than the ones that never try at all ;). |
Excellent post! I couldn't have said it better. ;)
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Everyone wants damn money for anything anymore, which I find pathetic. Several years ago when someone asked for an addon it got made within a few days and was released for free. You may got the ocassional person asking for money, but not like it is today. Cause the average person around here seems to be in school and does not have the money to throw around. If you're not going to upgrade your hack for any damn reason, then by god someone else should be able to do it. And whatever to the responses this post gets.
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I agree with you on the money part. Most of those who request money for a hack here learned how to write those very same hacks they are charging for right here. I miss the good old days when we all did it for the sheer pleasure of it and enjoyed learning together. The money doesn't matter to me, it never has. I've never really had any so I don't miss it. ;)
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Then you're not asking the right people and not installing the right hacks. ;)
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The vast majority of the time, a hack question has been already answered in its thread. |
I didn't ask the right people... :confused: i posted it smack down in the thread I got the hack from.. where would you suggest me posting my question?
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I agree, and I read the entire thread, found my error wasn't talked about yet, so I posted it, but that is leading away from my point. My point is simply, that person said if you try people are more likly to help, and that isn't true.. that is my point. |
That's the problem here now. Everyone who releases a hack anymore feels they're not obligated to provide support. Why release a hack then if you all feel that way? Most of the hacks that get released anymore it seems are subpar in quality and basically to get their hack counts up. If I felt the same way you do, filburt, I would never release a hack here, let alone even visit the site. What happened to the good old days when we all worked together to have fun at this site? The problem is no one seems to remember when we were newbies and didn't know squat. I remember one of your very first hacks. It was the resolve IP hack and if I remember right, I even helped you with some bugs reports on it in the thread and had a blast doing it and learning from it. ;)
We need to all band together and start having fun again or we might as well kiss this place good-bye. ;) |
*Agrees wholeheartedly with Boofo's post*
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btw, my hat's off to those like NTLDR that provide solid, genuine support and quality hacks for people.. for free.. i know there are many others, but i have occupied a lot of NTLDRs time and he has always been more than gracious in his responses and patience.. |
Yes, NTLDR is one-of-a-kind. If more members here would take after him, I think we could get on the road to recovery here at vb.org. I try, but I'm not anywhere close to being proficient at coding yet. (Just look at my hacks to prove my point. ;))
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You're not so bad, Boofo! I've not seen any of your current works, but you're pretty good imho. *echos sentiments about NTLDR and his excellant support* |
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I STILL have a lot to learn. My hacks are simple hacks that almost anyone could do. ;) And where have you been, young lady? ;) |
*doesn't veer off topic but mentions work has been keeping me rather busy* love the sig, btw.
Also, I agree with your post above, Boofo, about banding together. It's frustrating for members upgrading to vb3 but would like to keep some of the custom features from vb2 hacks. I realize some of the more proficient coders have too many hacks to rewrite, but if there's no intention of upgrading the hack then why not allow someone else to use it? Everyone says "don't use the same code and it's okay" but ... code is code and I imagine in many cases (not all) some of the same code will have to be used as that's the way it goes. ... Oh well. I don't write hacks, so I probably shouldn't comment too much. /me cheers the hack writers and all their efforts and contributions |
The great thing about vB3 though is that quite a few of the hacks we had to install for vB2 are now included in vB3. That makes it a lot easier on deciding what hacks to convert. And with the conditonals, now a lot of the old hacks can be done right in the templates. ;)
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If some one is going to take a vb2 hack, make it work for vb3, and doesn't mention they used part of the vb2 hack, then that is wrong. But if the converter mentions you, as the orginal creator of the hack.. what's the big deal? It's not like they are taking credit for it all, just saying they convereted it over to vb3.
Am I missing something? |
don't use any part of the code itself.. in other words, you create the entire coding for the vB3 version.. no copy paste.. although there are so many changes with vB3, copying and pasting wouldn't be recommended anyway..
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Hackers vs Hackers: Does anyone here copyright php code? Does anyone fork out ?300-400 to copyright an open source hack? "Ownership" of hacks should be changed - aslong as credit is given where credit is due - anyone should be allowed to modify code and release it, I'm not saying take hack x call it hack y and release it, I mean; if the way the hack runs is significantly improved or changed why cant it be shared on vb.org? What's the problem? If as a hack creator you dont like this simply take your code down to the copyright offices and get it copyrighted. Recent example: I created a shoutbox addon for vbindex (it adds a shoutbox to the forum home display and also adds top 10 shouters and number of shouts a member has made) Some of the queries where the same as those via the original vbindex code, have you not heard the expression: Don't reinvent the wheel. The addon did use a large amount of code from vbindex but it was an addon and credit was given, still NTLDR removed the addon. I released this because, I wanted it so I figured someone else may want it. That should be the reason hacks are released. (Unless someone wants a hacker to make a hack) My addon added atleast 4 major things: shoutcounter, forum home display, forum home shout adding, top ten shouters. It is absurd to remove an addon which adds something just because someone else made it using some of your code. Hackers Attitude: This leads on to overall hackers attitude to eachother and to non hackers:
support I enjoy supporting my hack(s), however frustrating, it gives ideas for improvement, bugfixes and improves the community feel of vb.org. Some hackers don't like to support their modifications, and that's fair. Hacks are released under no obligation or warranty, I don't think anyone has the right to complain or demand anything from anyone on this forum. Basicly I agree with the first post: - hacks should not have strict ownership aslong as credit is given. Hackers are working together not in competition. Ok it's a male dominated community but why compete over something so pointless. - vb.org needs to address this issue, the forum does need opening so that there is a clear catagory to talk about making mods and hack in progress areas and other such stuff... |
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I can point out a few GPL packages that people have developed a bit and are now putting this "everythingVB hack" license on.
[quote] FullAttribution. You must give the original author credit, visibly on your site. LimitedDerivs. You may make derivative works, but you must contact the original author before releasing your alterations. LimitedTranslation. You may translate this Hack, but you must contact the original author before releasing your translation. [quote] If your hack is on a GPL base the hack must also be GPL am I correct? PS - WHile you mods and admins are floating round, when my vb members area access expires on my owned license do I lose access to vb.org? Am I missing something too? :) |
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Secondly, about NTLDR's actions - The vB.org rules state that you are not allowed to modify and/or release without prior consent from the original hack author... That means you should have asked NTLDR before releasing anything which uses code from vBindex... Thirdly: Quote:
Check the "Copyright, Design and Patents Act of 1988" (in the UK) for more details... And finally, please check the rules before you do something which the Mods must take action over - I understand you are new, but we have been abiding by the laws for some time now, and have come to accept them... I feel it is always the newer members who never seem to get the idea of the history and former community of vB.org :ermm: Satan |
I, personally, have some ideas about this issue that can resolve some of the issues for future hacks and addons. I will discuss them with the staff here and we will see what kind of solutions we can come up with that will allow hack authors to retain their rights while allowing for abandoned ideas and projects to be picked up by interested developers.
Once that is done, any solutions will be made available to the community. |
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thank you |
Things will be alot better around here if we as hackers here had the attitude of sourceforge than the attitude of microsoft...
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Yes, that would be ideal.
If the following is sort of off-topic, please pardon me, although it's on my mind and I thought I'd voice it. Most developers at Sourceforge are quite skilled at their programming, and most hackers on these forums aren't. For this site, it creates an environment of amatuer competition, and people who don't like to share. If vBulletin.org ever wanted to head into the cooperative haven that Sourceforge is, there would have to be an integrated way of creating hack projects. These could be threads, but instead of just containing the regular information of a hack, it contains the group members of the project, progress updates, etc. These threads could be located in a sub-forum maybe called "Unreleased Projects," or something to that flavor, and when the project is finished it can be moved into the actual hack forum for download. I often see hack-project threads of 4 pages or more posted around where one individual introduces their hack-in-progress and people just talk about it for pages on. What I addressed above sounds like a more formal and effective way of going about things. The best part of cooperative working, even if it's a group of somewhat inexperienced coders, is that people can help out on another and everyone can benefit and progress their skills. To be honest though, no vBulletin hack is ever really that large for more than 1 person (that is, if that person is moderate experience in PHP). Still, it's an idea to consider. |
i think that sums it up, along with Boofo's post about no one wanting to support their hacks anymore
re: filburts comment in reply to supporting hacks; i thought it was your duty as mod to try and get around where possible and offer support where needed across the whole forums, esepcially considering you're a super mod? (genuine question) i think people really do need to calm down though, maybe going back to my idea about tick boxes, maybe people could tick "you're welcome to use this code in a non-competative hack as long as full credit it given where due"? it would solve so many problems. as for the vBindex thing, i think it would've been seen as more acceptable if you released it as a find line XXX and and paste to line XXX or something like that, although being that it was actually an add-on i'm not sure what was the problem exactly. |
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Also I'm pretty sure you cant *just* get a copyright without going to a licensing body and paying for the rights. A community simmilar to sourceforge would be much better. There is competition in a community where competition is not needed. Cant people just work together? |
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