Private Forum for More Experienced Hackers?
 

It has been suggested that I start a poll regarding this conversation:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthrea...threadid=48688

Would the hack developers out there enjoy and use a private forum or subforum here for the purpose of discussing hacks and or developing hacks together?

Amy

Hmm... what would the criteria be for access to the forum? If people are collaborating together to create a hack, they could always do that on their own forum.

It wouldn't be my forum to make the rules. UBBDev had it set up so that it was by invitation only. They only allowed people in who had released hacks of their own and had demonstrated advanced knowledge.

I wouldn't base it on number of hacks released. Too many copycats out there are already rerelasing other people's hacks. The community knows who the hackers here are and who the leaches are.

Amy

It's a good idea I suppose - then again, I rarely post threads about the hacks I'm working on unless I want feedback from the people who are going to use it.

It would be nice to have a place to hang out with other hackers though...

I know many of us don't mind sharing our work with others and enjoy swapping hacks but are just utterly bogged down by having to support people who can't even spell PHP much less code in it. I have at least one big hack that people begged me to release but I never did simply because trying to support it would have been a nightmare.

i like the idea.

i have no problems with give support to the less skilled ones, but there are also hack's i won't release, because i know they are just for better skilles ones.

also for writing on a hack with the experienced hackers it would be a nice thing..

it could be a good idea, but i've never released a hack. im very good with php, i just never had any ideas for hacks

I noticed that several people voted YES, on a private forum...
I personally don't agree, so I voted NO.

The reason? We are all equal, why should some get access to a private forum and others do not?
I mean, I love to help people, from the little knowledge I have with PHP, so that's like removing a benefit to others to see what I post... if I decide to use it.

Let's let the mods and admins have their own private forums here and us to have the rest. :)
I enjoy the freedom we have here at vB.org and I think is very well organized the way it is now.
Let them copy the code, people will always know how to make the difference between a good hack and a bad one.
I still hope we will have a review system implemented here...

EDIT: Wow, I'm the only one who voted NO.

some very good points Floren, as always :)

not only you ;)

Who decides who can join? Who gets to invite? What if there is a disagreement? What is the definition of an "experienced hacker"?

It is easy to degenerate to a form of elitism and caste system here if this idea comes into fruition. That is just my opinion. :)

Not anymore :D

I would like to see it. I have areas of my forum that are only accessible to users that show certain expertise in different areas of programming. They are voted in by other experts after they exhibit a distinct knowledge and grasp of programming concepts.
The system works well and gives newcomers and novice programmers something to work towards. I think soemthing like this might work well. The inexperienced might take time to understand what is involved with creating a hack and try to figure out any problems they have and in the process start to create new hacks.

With the chance of getting flamed .. a total n00b replys!! , i didnt vote, i wouldnt be bothered with the experienced hackers gettin a private place.

But something else i would love to see happen is another forum , where the n00b's are tought php , i have a few book's here to learn with.

But from what i have seen from hack's ive installed , is that vb is almost another language alltogether.

At the moment im working on my own hack , it's going to take years to do at the current rate of progress. As much as i would like assistance at making this hack , i would rather make it all myself , from code i have seen.

For information the hack i am working on is called vBWebRing , initally it will be a vB hack , but eventually it will be a vB & vBPortal hack.

I voted yes, but would like to bring up a point.

Lets take two users
Bane
Mark Hensler

Bane has put out 1 major vB Hack thats in the top 5 and is Moderately knowlegable in php.

Mark Hensler has put out 0 vB Hacks, but is very knowlegable about PHP/MySQL etc..

Which would be invited? How would we be sure that people like Mark got an invite.

The second issue would be this, what happens if/when someone that has access to the private forum starts asking really stupid questions that are the reason the forum got created in the first place.. Do you yank his access? And what would be that persons reaction to this?

I approve of the idea, but can't help thinking I approve of it because I would somehow have a magical key to the city. I hope that if something like this is thought about, that the impact on the greater part of the community that would *not* be included is considered.

I would imagine that people who have released at least one vB hack, and have quite a good knowledge of PHP and are active would be let in.

I, honestly, am against it. I think support is bad enough here. A private forum will just keep the people that could actually help away even more. I think the focus should be on working on support right now, as it takes forever for just one person to say I don't know.

That is my point Shpookdefied. Some of us are not in the support business. We don't mind sharing our ideas but have no time to hold newbie hands. This would give us a place to talk without some novice seeing our work, trying to install it and then demanding help. Therefore, if we DID post our work in public it would be an indication that we will support it and that it is appropriate for novice hackers.

Amy

Sorry but you are wrong. You have no idea how many bad hacks are out there released at vB.org site.
That's why a Review system will be great. It will avoid security problems, slowing down the board due to bad code, etc. since people will actually see what's wrong with it. Also the coder will learn from his(her) mistakes.

Take a look at my hacks. They may be useful to some people but by no means do they sum up my knowledge of php. I have only just reached the part in my book where php and mysql meet so by no means do hacks count as a basis for knowledge or experience.

- miSt

Side note: not to be stereotypical but young people all getting together on a programming project almost never succeeds. I'm not saying that's the case here but everywhere I've gone that's the trend I've gotten.

the best I can remember , when I released 'LeSane's Store Add-on for VB Quiz ' there was a place to say either " yes I will provide support for this hack " or " the hacker cannot garuntee support for this hack " right ? There ya go , problem solved.

I voted no as it sounds too ' elitist ' for my personal tastes. I've only released 1 hack and was basically the testor for it with LeSane doing the hard coding but I help whoever I can whenever I see a problem that I know the answer to. If you don't want to give support - then just don't give support.

I dont see the benefit of it!

What about people with a good programming mindset and programming practices who are still learning PHP/MySQL?

My problem is, I try to research my question before asking it, and I try to ask conceptual questions (What is the best method to do this?) rather than procedural questions (what's chmod() do?!). But it is hard to be heard in a sea of the folks with the FLP (free lunch philosophy). :(

People learn a few lines of PHP and don't use the search engine, they just hit Post. Or they won't even try to search the PHP manual or thru the vBulletin files to find the function they need before posting.

On PHPBuilder.com, we've had these losers get downright abusive towards forum moderators/helpers for suggesting they use the search engine and look at the PHP manual before posting stuff like "how do I write a file?".

I think the idea could work if a set of rules where put out. Mabey a system like the mod application where people could send in a application to be invited to the forum. The person would have to show that they know the inner workings or vB, php, and mySQL. Show some of their work (be it a released hack or their site), and would have to prove they wrote the code.

Im all for it, as long as it dosent turn into a private place where people can flame posters like ubbdev's mod forum (i know a mod over there, there is some nasty stuff in that forum about me. They call me a walking billbord for vB cause i answered a question a guy asked about php.mySQL forums and dident say "oo get ubbthreads....enof about that).

An application system would mean even more work for the mods here

I vote "NO" because we were all newbies once and we all asked the dumb questions a time or two, some even more. We tend to forget that at times. That's how a newbie becomes knowledgeable. The support here used to be the best, but it has gone downhill here lately (apart from a very few who still enjoy sharing their knowledge). We used to all learn from one another. Now no one seems to have the [high]time[/high] to help anyone out. Just my 3 1/2 cents worth.

I agree there Boofo. Hopefully business will resume once vb3 is out :).

- miSt

Boofo, I guess my thought is that so many of the people here anymore aren't hackers. They are copy and pasters who simply use the work of others. Combine that with a belligerant attitude that the hackers OWE them something and their absolute refusal to read threads or use a search engine and I think you will understand why the people who can help get absolutely fed up and don't want to deal with it anymore.

I understand totally that a private forum here is not something that fits with this place's mission. However, I believe there is a market for somebody else to create another hacking board somewhere that caters to the developers and not the masses.

Amy

hi,
i think it would be better to create on board for hacks without support for experienced Users. But a districted board.. no. Iam experienced with php but, ive not the time to write many hacks. But i have no problem to take a hack without instructions in my board.

A copy&paste user cannot add a hack without further instruction. That would be a save against leechers. But the biggest problem, how to find experienced peoples?

Sorry for that bad english, its not my native language. And im tiered, and in 5 hours i must go to scool. I need sleep now! Good night. ;)

i will abstain from voting (i'm elitest but i wouldnt fall into the catagory yet that i'd like to be at to see the private forum) but anyhow what if all could see the advanced things discussed to follow the flow of the code or what is going on but only people in said usergroup could post their items. how you get into that usergroup could be determined later (like vb,php,mysql quiz online or application) just my thoughts.

This thread is well over a year old so there is no need to continue the discussion :)