War on Iraq
 

Hi,

I thought i'd post a poll up here and ask what you guys here at vbulletin.org think about war with iraq. I myself have very strong views on this subject but im curious to hear what everyone else thinks.

Obviously this is a sensitive subject to some people so don't feel obliged to share your views if you don't want to hehe :p

- miSt

Without trying to start a flame war I think Bush is a complete retard for still trying to push it, particurally given the fact that he has no evidence of any weapons construction. Even if there is, who gives? We have thousands of nuclear warheads and other leading countries in the world have large armies, navies, and air forces. Bush is more dangerous than his petty opponents.

Thats more or less my stance..

I don't see why the UN should agree to go to war with Iraq on the US's "word" - the US also expects the public to back him when he has showed no evidence to the public..

Also i fear that if we go to war with Iraq that it may mean more than just fighting in Iraq - what is there to say that "if" they do have these weapons that they won't use them before we start the offensive..

I mean last time the allies took Iraq by suprise - that's why the allies won. But the press and media are hyping up the war by saying that we need to take Iraq by suprise again. I don't think Saadam's going to be sitting there watching US news channels but his advisors will be aware that a suprise attack is probable if the situation is resolved

- miSt

And UK is at risk more and more daily thanks to Tony Blair (:mad:)

Nuke 'em

Although I dont totally agree with Tony Bliar.
He sucks:)

Well i disagree - Tony Blair is a very good prime minister

Fair enough he makes promises he can't forfill but he's done a good job for this country - any other party would have made the same mistakes

- miSt

Although I would lvoe to get into a debate with you abouy TB.
But this is about Iraq, maybe if you see me on MSN we can talk then >)

Hehe sure... i'll debate with anyone about anythign providing im not busy :)

- miSt

I don't know about TB's politics but he sure is a hell of a much better public speaker than W.

Lol it's great cuz i can do accurate impressions of them both - i have done so many prank calls at parties and such :)

- miSt

Tony Blair's George Bush's top suck up..

John Howard digs up deeper every day too. We're involved so we seem to be a threat now too.

No-where is safe really.

I say we let the snipers out one last time to do a job on W's head.

But honestly, Bush has been a idiot scence the day he took over office. Acully im fed up with the U.S. Goverment as a whole, im buying a plane ticket to canada or amsterdam and never looking back. Land of the free my ass

[/rant]

Why can't we all live in pease. :ermm:

That's never gonna happen unfortunately :(

Because everyone one is to worried about begin the best. well its a number of things really. sadly we will never see it. :(

It's a human instinct to be competitive - unfortunately although the human is the best example of a successfull mammal we have our faults and some of these faults are built in..

No-one is perfect and certainly GWB isn't

May i ask why so many americans voted for him and now a lot of american's dislike him?

- miSt

Nuke them, heck Saddem treats people awful and he deserve to be torture by USA or whoever ;p

F-u-c-k it, Saddem will nuke any country with tons of chemical bombs, do you think he will not do anything to any countries? Think about it ;p

You guys are too young to remember how we got to be the most powerful country in the free world. We got it by standing up for what we believe in and helping out the little guys. The results aren't always the best forcast. Look at Vietnam, for instance. But at least we were willing to take a stand. I didn't vote for Bush, but I'll have to admit, it's finally nice to see a president with guts for a change. It's been too long without one. Although, I still think old George Senior is running more of it than will ever be admitted.

I think we ought to go over to Iraq and finish the job once and for all. There should never be an "if" he has the weapons. We know he does, or at least the capability and hatred enough to use them. I don't want another September 11th to look back on. And I don't know much about Tony Blair, but I like him. He's not afraid to take a stand either. You will never miss the freedom you have now until you lose it. Then there will be a lot of tune changing about all of this going on now. Better to forge ahead and keep our way of life than to let some grease spot take it away from you. Libya was our Iraq in the old days. Once we straightened out Qaddafi (or however you spell it) he backed off. He was just as dangerous to us then as Saddam is to us now.

That's just my 3 1/2 cents worth.

I say, it wouldn't hurt to be ready. Also Boofo is correct, though most of US' allies were made by bombing them, and then rebuilding. (Take Japan)

US really took control after WWI and WWII, Canada was a very powerful country it self, but now has out-dated fleets, and I think Canada should really not go to back up America, as we will really get our butts nuked :p we have no protection.

This is no history lesson, but I'd say get ready, and if there is war I do not want to see any innocent people die in the US and allied countries, or even the enemies countries. They will have to take care of the enemy, and the enemy in this case is weapons of mass destructions, and maybe Sadam. They will only get one chance, but I do not know why Sadam would be crazy enough to test the US powers. Here is my analogy.
Sadam = Pawn
U.S & Britain = Foot Ball Team, each player weighing over 285 pounds, and taller than 6'3.

Again, I do not want to see innocent people die, but what must be done to insure the safty of the our nation, must be done, but may god have mercy on the innocent souls that will die in this war if it were to start.

Mist I could tell your stance by the way that poll question was worded.

Who the hell are we to be the moral judge in the world?

When someone bombs New York City in early morning, unexpectedly, and kills 2000-3000 people in the process, moral judgement is no longer the most important issue. America is a family, I'm willing to protect my family, that's what it's supposed to be all about. If you stand by and do nothing while someone slaps you long enough, sooner or later, you're going to get hurt and then it's too late to do anything about it. Who is Saddam Husien to have moral judgement on us, or on any other country who doesn't agree with him? I believe if people don't like the way this country is run, and how we do things to get and keep the freedoms and ideals we have, then they have every right to go live in another country that they do agree with. That's what I would do if I didn't agree with it. If we don't take care of him now, then we can expect more September 11ths in the future. You don't wait for the snake to bite.

That's precisely my problem: Bush is using an offensive defense. There's a simple solution: we don't interfere with other countries and then we have no problems ourselves.

*enjoys not having to type paragraphs* :D

If what you're saying is true, then what did we do to Afghanistan to bring on Sept. 11th? I'm not saying we should judge the rest of the world, I'm not saying we should go attack Turkey because it's Thanksgiving or attack China because they do population control. Those are problems that don't adversely affect us, but when Saddam Hussein threatens to help out the Tali-ban by giving them chemical weapons, what is that? We're not morally judging anything, we're just defending ourselves, not in case of attack, but a very real probability of attack. If someone walks into my house and says they're going to shoot me, I'm not waiting until I see a gun before I take them out. If we don't take care of our own then when it's all done and said, there won't be anything left worth fighting for.

Ignorant is a bliss That is what others (enemies) want us to be..., think it over.. Saddem don't give any f-u-c-k about USA or any countries. Iraq will bomb any countries if they need to do or just for fun sake. There are psychology anayzles on Saddem's psycho level and it is pretty high. Very unreliable and such (psycho-babbling) He does not GIVE ANY F-U-C-K if any countries or USA starts or not. There are many things that USA did not start yet other countries whined at USA for help ;p

Either way, surrender and we lost our homeland then massacure(spelling?) or slaves or go to war against him and possible save our homeland and freedom?

Many of people forget that USA save the f-u-c-k-i-n-g world from WW1 and WW2 ;p and already people complained and whined about USA and its activities..

People are weird.... again Ignorant is a bliss That is what people goes/went thur right now. Give it or take it. I stated my opinion, nothing more than that. Don't take offense by my comment. Unless vbulletin.org takes privilage of voice our opinion away ;p But I do agree with some of members here that Bush took too personal with Saddem and his father stuff, that which is beyond stupidity, he already lost the chance for next election anyway.

[high]* Goldknight thinks of move to Sweden or Denmark ;p[/high]

That's a theory but everyone know's that it's not true. In practice no-one is ever out of the firing line. Once you step into the light you can't go back out of it. Take Switzerland for example - look at it's position in europe - right between germany and france and it had not part to play in WW1 or WW2 - and it's stayed out of trouble.

- miSt

So are you saying I'm right or wrong? :confused:

In this case i don't think i'll reach a conclusion - life isn't about making conclusions though really - you can't say what you said is either wrong or right because i can find examples where your right and wrong :)

But the fact is that no-one can make right/wrong decisions - it's just part of life..

If the UN or if the UN doesn't back the US - just the US - decalre war on Iraq then whatever happens there will be people out there who believe it was the right decision and people who believe it was the wrong decision.

There's crazy people out there and these are normal people who mix amongst us in everyday life but that's part of life isn't it... if we interfere with these people what good is it going to do - how can we evolve as a species if we are constantly removing these individuals for society

Draw's Conclusion

In one way your right and one way your wrong but the way i see it whatever happens something bad is going to happen as a result of it - and that's life :)

- miSt

You take the cake on this one, Mist. That has got to be the biggest bumch of bullsh!t I have ever heard anyone come up with. You start a poll and discussion and continue to try and sit on an imaginary fence. If you aren't going to have a human opinion, then maybe you ought not to start polls and discusioons, huh?

I can see Boofo, you take this stuff seriously.
After reading what you have to say, all I can say now is.

What is done, is done, what must be done, can be done, what can be done, will be done. Try to live with it, because loss, fear, and sorrow is something of life, but don't make life become fear and sorrow.

[high]* Boofo LMAO at Drk
[/high]

The only thing I take seriously is someone dodging the exact question they are asking and tries to pass it off, as crap. If you don't take things like Iraq seriously then bye-bye world as we know it. Vietnam, Korea, and September 11th are the results of things that at first weren't taken seriously.

Drk, I don't have any problem in the world with getting into polls and discussions and duking it out with the best of them. But when I and filburt1, who seem to be exact opposites in this poll, still can't get a straight answer from the person who started the poll, what do you expect? :)

I'll be done with this and leave it alone. Sorry I butted in in the first place. This is why I try to avoid polls and debates as much as possible. :)

I do take this seriously but i prefer to take other people's opinions into account :)

And boofo - don't ever stay out of polls - you're older than me and have so much more life experiences (that is a compliment - not a dig at your old age too :))

I respect your opinion but basically forgetting all the BS posted in this thread i don't think we should go to war with iraq for the reason basically that i fear if the attack isn't swift then we could suffer the consequences..

[high]* Mist prompts boofo to carry on debating :)
[/high]

- miSt

Ahem...

No he is *cough cough* NOT *cough cough*

He is worse than that evil woman who called herself Margaret Thatcher...*shudders*

Of course it will...The idea that Iraq is going to attack anyone is just some Paranoid Conspiracy that George W Bush wants to spread around so everyone will get out their hunting gear and join his "Let's crush innocent people" army...

*cough* The wonders of "democracy"... *cough*

Is it me, or do I smell a hint of a Result Fixing going on with our "publicly voted" leaders;)

Boofo - I respect your opinion, but to be honest, don't you think that Mr Bush Take 2 is just another excuse for America to go on a Power trip again?

Is it me, or am I the only one who sees America's flamboyent exclaimation of "We are the greatest Super-power on this Planet" as a renouncement of what America is supposed to stand for? "Freedom"...My cat has more intelligence in one strand of it's hair...My Cat only really wants to wage war on Carpets, and even it has the intelligence to only go and attack one bit of the Carpet, incase the other parts attack back...

I would just laugh my head off if America got their backside handed to them on a silver platter:D

We only have Bush's and Blair's word that there is a Snake to bite us with...And to be honest, I don't trust either of them...:bored:

I understand that you are worried about these "Chemical Weapons" that apparently exist (in Bush's barely active imagination), but I disagree that waging war on any country that isn't America or it's so called Allies without hard evidence and proof that these "Chemical Weapons" do actually exist is the right course of action for anyone...

And prior to contrary belief - 9-11 cannot happen again until they rebuild the 2 towers...And also prior to contrary belief, I think you will find that 9-11 was just a Conspiracy - Either the American Government set it up as an excuse for war on anyone not remotely Americanised, or it was some bunch of crazy people, totally unrelated to the Taliban or Iraq or any Middle-Eastern country...

Now...Boofo - I understand that you have a Family to look after...But to be honest, they are more likely to get killed by Bush's stupidity and inherent madness, rather than a Chemical or Nuclear attack from other countries...

The World is just paranoid - Most of this is probably just some Government Conspiracy...

Satan

Chris, I wasn't going to respond to this thread, anymore, but you leave me no choice. :) It's easy to sit back and take the "let's not jump the gun here" view when your 16 and the world is in the shape it is in today (and I don't mean that as a slam or anything about your age :)). But when you've been around long enough to have gone through a few wars AND Presidents, you start to feel the snake as he begins to move. Sept. 11th CAN and WILL happen again if we don't do something about it now. The Towers are gone, but there is the Sear's Tower in Chicago and the Washington Monument and a lot of other places they have threatened to and can get to if they want to. Saddam has already started everything in motion when he admitted wanting to give chemical weapons to the Tali-ban. Yes I do have a family that I would do whatever it took to protect them. If that means going over there myself and doing whatever I had to do so my family could live in a secure and safe environment back here, then I would do it at a moments notice with no regrets. It's nice to believe that there aren't any threats to our safety, but remember this, "if you can't play with the big dogs then stay on the porch." Saddam is daring us to do something and when we do, we are the ones who are wrong. Well, so be it, then. We'll be wrong and he'll be history. I can live with that. And so can my family. ;)

Not to mention that there have been threats against allied countries including where I live (Canada) and where you live Chris.

When did saadam admit to wanting to supply the taliban weapons? I have a feeling you may have been subjected to american propaganda because that story never reached our shores :)

That's another thing you have to bare in mind - propaganda - it's everywhere and i'm not saying it is but maybe america is exagerrating the threat ?

That has been a known fact for some time now, since the Sept 11th attack. American Intelligence picked that up a long time ago. And the report WAS substantiated many times, even by Saddam himself. Check around some of the major newswires and you will find the info.

Quote:

That's another thing you have to bare in mind - propaganda - it's everywhere and i'm not saying it is but maybe america is exagerrating the threat ?

Think about what you are saying here. America has nothing better to do with its time than go after someone who you say is no threat. And I suppose you're going to tell me that when Saddam won 100 percent of the vote for re-election (as he calls it) that was legit and above board and with no threats to his own countrymen, right? Have you ever heard of "genocide"? Saddam has been practicing that for years. Do you honestly believe that if he will do that to his own people, he would give any thought to doing it to anyone else in the world? He is no better than Hitler was. And Hitler was no threat, either, huh? :)

If you feel better about your position on this by calling it propaganda, then fine. Call it whatever you like. Sit back in your nice cozy, safe home and enjoy it. But remember this, what we are doing now and WILL do to Saddam, the Tali-ban and anyone else who threatens our way of life now and in the future, is what is allowing you to sit there and feel all cozy and warm AND safe. We weren't thanked or appreciated when we came home from Vietnam either, so hearing this now is nothing different. It is what it is and it will be whatever it will be and nothing is going to change that no matter how everyone screams what is right and what isn't right. Something has to be done and it seems America is the only one who seem to be up to the task to handle it. We have allies, but it is us that will do whatever has to be done. Tony Blair seems to be the only one who has the kahoogas to stand up with us. Is he wrong, too? I don't think so. :)

heh Tony Blair doesn't have any of the UK public on his side, he's kinda turning some against the US now, what bush is doing is bad enough, but tomy blair backs him up for everything even without reason to, i see what he gets at, but none of them have any proof at all

i hope they do go to war and shove a missile up saddam's ass. it'll put this 15 year old crisis to rest. I know people will die, but many more will die if the bastard sells nukes to terrorist or he may use them on us or other countries as well...

democrats dont want war, and they are chickens when it comes to war.. that is why bill clinton didn't do anything about it.. republicans don't take Sh!t, which is why i like bush, crazy mofo that will kill for peace... same with korea... shove one up their rump ..

and for the record, i am a democrat, just different from the rest of the puss ;)

flame me all you want but its the truth.