vBulletin Ethical Dilemma (heh)
 

So, I find myself in an odd position related to vBulletin hacking.

A user here has written a hack, and endlessly tormented users with screen shots, promises, beta testing and so on, but is charging money for the hack itself. He even has a link to Paypal in his vb.org signature (which is actually the final straw that prompted me to write this message).

I have written my own version of the same hack -- which *I* think is superior, but of course we all prefer our own work -- with the same games and more. My hack started on the same source as his, but is essentially 95% my own code now (with the remaining 5% being var names and related syntax left over from the original source).

So the question is, do I release my hack? Or do I sit on it?

On the one hand, I don't like the idea of people selling hacks, at all. At least, not selling (advertising) them here at vb.org.

On the other hand, I respect the author for the work he put into it, and I do not want to simply screw him over. Additionally, I do not want to piss off the users who have already paid for his hack (and I believe there are at least a few).

Ultimately, I have put a lot of effort into *mine* and would like to release it (and definitely would, were it not for these circumstances) but I can envision an ensuing war that I don't want to be a part of.

(If anybody's interested, you can see my Arcade hack in action at www.shadowsofnamek.com as in my signature below...)

Release it and let the users decide. Just let them know that there is a free version available. I'm with you on the charging crap. I'll help you ride out any rough waves that come along. If you decide not to release it publicly. I would be interested in trying it out. :)

Who cares? As Boofo said, just release it and let users decide. And I second Boofo too if you decide to not release it then I ll join Booo to try it out =D

Edit: Just be yourself, no one can tell you what to do but yourself :)

I agree here as well. If the code is 95% your own its clear your not trying to rip anyone off or realeasing a hack which is mostly someone elses code.

Heck yeah! Release it. And its free, woohoo :banana:

Heh, OK you guys have convinced me. I started adding a bunch more features tonight, but I will be posting something in the beta forum soon.

Release it. :) I want to have a look at it myself. I started this crazy Flash craze when I posted the original Tetris hack in the first place. john is not even letting me try his arcade hack, which is fine, since he has obviously spent a lot of time adding stuff to my original Tetris hack (which I ported over from vBPortal). Oh well... :)

And the really sick part in all of this is that he is using vb.org to make money off of it. That kind of ruins the fun of hacking for me. Is he giving you anything for getting it started? ;)

Yeah, he said he was going to release the hack [along with the Store Integration] saying nothing about 'donations.'

I really don't mind paying for a hack at all! Heck, I paid for Karma, but this seemed a tad disappointing, IMHO.

Futureal - I think you should release it. There are plenty of 'duplicate' hacks in these forums.

Go for it! :banana:

There is a BIG difference between donations and releasing a hack only to those who have paid, which is all what he is doing really amounts to. He is only calling it donations to hide the fact that you must pay for it to get it.

Well said. That's what I was trying to say but my blonde hair was getting in the way. ;)

You guys have totally convinced me. :)

I will release it, but it will take some time (a few days at least) for me to even get it into an "installable" form. Plus, I am still adding features on a daily basis to my own.

Rest assured, I'll get it out there. And when it does go out, it should be rather nice!

=D Glad that you re totally convinced! Hats goes to Boofo and his "well said" statement as usual. Looking foward to fool around with your hack. :)

eh... are we talking about all that tetris and game stuff? well anyways good luck to you futureal... i hope that your hack works out fine... if you need any assistance feel free to ask... regards...

g-force2k2

Go a head, its not gonna hurt....

By the way...was shadows of namek, the forums that went up after Planet Namek went down, the style is a "bit" similar.

Alot of members are from there also.
Anyways
good luck

Yup, that was the idea. We used the same style so people would feel "at home." But the site quickly became 100% different other than the look (and there are different styles to choose from now).

Namek is my "fun" site where I test code and generally goof off, R/C Tech is my "real" one.

Yea, I remember a discussion about that there.

*Notes that futureal really likes the onmouseover button change effect*

Anyways go ahead and release it, and good luck!

Who is the user that has a PayPal link in his sig?

Erm... don't know :s <looks shifty>

Would everyone be happy if I released with no support?

I think it *was* john.eovie, if so it has gone now.

It was yeah, but I never realised it was against the rules. Link taken off.

I came up with the arcade hack for my forums, I was never planning to release it. Then people start asking me if they can have it, and offering donations - now people are claiming that it should be made public... there's no pleasing some people!

I would have posted in this thread ages ago, but I've only just noticed it. I've got nothing against you releasing another arcade hack, after all, this is a dog eat dog world. – may the best man win

What I'm upset about is all the people that have slated John for the screen shots, posts, etc... about the arcade hack in the Tetris thread. I don't see any problems with him doing this, esp. considering how off-topic a lot of the hack threads can get.

What I'm also unhappy about is the fact that all of the people in the pre-mentioned thread are accusing john of leading them on. This is not the case, and never has been.

The truth of the matter is that John freely released the “Tetris with leader board” hack and started working on another hack for his own personal and private use. He might have casually suggested to a few people that he had such a hack, but from the very start always said that it was not going to be a public release. Next thing we know everyone wants it.

It’s like someone coming into your home and taking your TV because they “want it” – are you just going to give it to them?

It was HIS hack for HIS site. I don’t see a problem with selling it due to these reasons.

And yes, you may have noticed that I’m running his arcade hack on my site, I was one of his beta testers for the arcade hack and also spent quite some time helping him with it (while he helped me with my own hack) before anyone else even knew the arcade hack existed.

That’s all I wanted to say. – I believe in open source, but I also believe in free commerce.

I didn't realise that the fact people were paying for my own version for my site annoyed people so much.

I spent 4 days solid making the arcade hack suitable to send out to people, rather than having it only on my site. (Because people asked me to.) Now, once everyone gets together they gang up on me because it's wrong for me to get anything back for the hard work I put in.

If you want me to release the arcade hack, fine. But I can't give any support (the main reason why I didn't want to release it in the first place). I'm only going to be giving updates and support to the people who were kind enough to support me. Likewise, only the people who supported me will get my other hacks - you won't even hear about them in any other thread.

But how many hacks and help has John gotten from here that he was not charged for or had to pay any "donation" and this is how he pays all of that back to the community? We should all be here to help one another and have some fun while doing it. If someone wants to "sell" their hack, fine, just do it on their own site and don't involve the community here. It's a cheap shot to take advantage of the users here by baiting. Sorry, that's just my opinion.

And anyone who releases hacks without any support is not a whole lot better. Because then, instead of charging for the hack, you will have to pay for the support. How many hacks have you gotten from here that did not have support?

Firstly, I'll state that I'm not ganing up on you at all. I have no problem with you selling any hack you make or only providing support to those who support you.

I haven't read the very long tetris thread, but what I think people don't like is people advertising paid hacks on these forums, I never saw the link in your sig or anything about if it was going to be released, the fact that you have to pay or anything.

Just my $.02, good luck with the hack ;)

Right, so you don't want me to release it now. Take a look at the original tetris hack - about 65 pages of support over the last week alone, sorry if that isn't good enough! Perhaps I should give up my day job to become a full timer....

We're not gaining up on you at all. But I want to ask you something. How many hacks have you downloaded from here and "donated" to the author for all of his hard work? Do you honestly believe you have worked any harder on your paid hack as someone else does on their free one (with support). Lesane's Store hack is a perfect example. And I could name a few more that I am sure you are running one of.

Great, i've got to pay YOU now ;) ;) ;)

LMFAO :D

When will anyone get this, the arcade hack was for my site only - but through carelessness it got out, and all of a sudden I owe it to everyone to release it.

Fine. You won't see any more hacks or support from me. I'll keep myself to myself.

what is the ruling on vb.org for selling of hacks? I can't see any terms and conditions anywhere???

This is a hacking community, related to any types of hack, free or otherwise.

The number of hacks john has installed by other authors is not the issue here, if other people want to give away hacks, that's up to them.

I don't feel that john should be pushed out of the community because of this.

You'll note that I never said selling a hack was wrong, I just said I disagreed with the practice, and I TRULY disagree with using the vb.org forums to heavily promote a hack that is being sold, as is going on in the vbTetris thread.

I will release my hack when it is ready, and it will be free and I will support it. The vb.org (and vb.com before it) community has helped make my sites what they are today and I'd be happy to donate whatever time I can to give back to people.

As I said in my original post, the ethical part of it comes up mainly because I'm not a "dog eat dog" sort of guy, I guess. :)

Okie Dokie...
I will remember this day, when you ask for support for someone elses hack :bandit:

-_-

BYE AND HAVE FUN!!!
BOOFO U ARE CORRECT!!!
YOU ARE A CLOSE 90% RIGHT!! ;)

[high]* DrkFusion is so cool[/high]

YOU KNOW WHAT??
If I had Johns hack, I would back him up too :lick:

*sniff* I smell a head up someones ass *sniff*
:chinese:

By the way, I am agreeing to that this community shouldn't really be used to sell stuff...and some other things..err yea

Probably your own

Is that even possible?

I actually saw a guy on Ripply's Believe it or not bend down that far, but not enough to stick his head in his own ass.

-_-

Ok, deleted the main tetris hack, so that's the end of that. S65 pages of tech support in that one, can you blame me for not wanting to release the arcade with support?!

WOW...impressive

Clinton did it for years, so, yes, it IS possible.

I'm not backing him up because I've got his hack, I'm backing him up because I feel what is happening to him is wrong.

Since I first met john, via these forum, i've been talking with him a lot on MSN, and I've almost come to a point where i'd call him a friend.

I'm supporting my friend because I know he is feeling very unhappy at the moment at the way some people have been treating him.