The State of this Forum
 

This thread is old so please stop bringing it back up!

My first week here, cost me having to deregister!, and sign up again for my newbyness.

So yeah i agree that some people are far too hostile here, but thats the big wide world i guess. Found it very friendly though on vbulletin.com

"quantity != quality"
I whole heartily agree.
(I have no quantity, so I must be all quallity, right? j/k)

"All the hackers are a bunch of kids looking to make money"
I have that impression as well. A large portion of the hackers anyway. This isn't exactly something you're gonna put on a resume... Realize it for what it is... a learning experience, a labor of love...

I've also noticed quite a few links to make PayPall donations. There may not be anything wrong with that, but when you see half of everyone with one of these....

FWIW I used to actively read about all the hacks when they were still at vbulletin.com. However there's no question that I have lost interest in most hacks since the move to vb.org. I hadn't really thought about the reason for this lack of interest, but perhaps it's partly due to the issues Freddie raised.

I would have to fuly argee. I just am starting not to like this site very much anymore.. I do come here since I like making hacks but I have been feeling like people are being demanding of hacks so I dont even bother.

You twisted it around. I don't see demanding users. If 20 different people say " have you made that multiple attachment hack yet ", that is not demanding. Don't put a signature that says "Current Projects: Multiple Attachments", if you don't want people to bug you about it.

There is merit in much of what Freddie says. However, I must add that while I read this board constantly, I rarely go to vbulletin.com anymore because I can't stand the constant whining and attacks on the vB staff that go on there. The 2.2.5 announcement discussion thread is a classic example. I love vB and I think the vB team is top notch. The abusive members over there have ruined that place for me.

I have had a few people demand hacks through IM

i must say this: when i started using VB, i didnt know nothing about PHP. but i'm a stubborn person and i dont like to lose, so i started understanding the mechanism and spending every day some time on php.net to read info and code snippets. so i agree with the line "you should spend more time working on each hack instead of trying to win some unimportant race to be the top hacker".

alot of people here don't know what is this: "respect for your collegue" and "help the community". lazy? yes i was lazy with one of my hacks once (vbHome) by not updating the code variables the right way. but i corrected all this when a user complained about it.

i personally consider myself lucky that i'm among this community. that's why sometimes i get a little harsh with people who insult others with terms like "lame", "gay", etc. this is not a way to deal with people. we are here to help eachothers, not to overinflate our chests.

how do i participate myself to this community? not by posting the "best" hack, but by trying to help others in need, with the little PHP knowledge i have. i'm not shy to see i'm wrong and to apologise.

there are some bad apples in every garden, as we say in romania. but i believe we have a good spirit community here. we just have to chisel ourself and learn how to act into our large family.

flame? why would people flame your post? all you said was truth and deep down inside of us, we all admit this. i do. and i apologise for this. i will try my best to correct any of the issues related to this matter (attitude, code, etc), even if dont see myself guilty of doing something. i try my best to help people with their problems and sometimes to come up with a little hack. but is like that, if you analise your actions, you start to see what you did wrong and you regret it. i'm sure we all do. deep down inside of us.

all the best,
nakkid.

Freddie I made this point on vb.com and was shot down in flames by many of the people who sell the hacks as well as those who are dumb enough to buy them.

I have always said that this place should be a community and that it should be non profit making and for the good of the community and I take my hat off to you for having the wotnots to say what you think.

I think that some people should lighten up and also learn to take a joke too.

Yesterday I made a post on shoutbox that it was my birthday and that unless people be nice to me I would kill FireFly, I expected the reaction of people calling me an evil meanie as come on I would never consider killing Chen, well maybe if there was a lot of money involved from infopop :).

Anyhow the post was made in good humour but people failed to see it that way as they are too preocupied being IMHO bum kissers.

I hope Chen did not take it the wrong way and that he saw the funny side of it. But I realy do think Neo, 69-FLy-gUy and afterlab should go out and smell some fresh air or something.

I myself had a run in with Chen a while back but he has more than proved his worth and that he is capable of running this forum and tbh I see this as his creation.

Sinecure I class in the same light as those who sell hacks as he has sold styles before today, same thing realy as he is using his position to make money from something that is essentialy free.

Anyhow I am happy to see that Jelsoft takes its members views seriously.

Yours respectfully

HM

BTW can I just add that when I first came on vb.org I regarded chen as and I aint ashamed to say it "A KID" and my perception of him was wrong from day 1.

If anyone should be TOP HACKER then it should be him and only him as he has turned this place into something worth while and I credit him with all the hard work.

He has gone above and beyond what I would call the JOB and he has impressed a fat bloke like me who is set in my ways on many things.

In short I admit I was wrong about Chen and he has done a kick ass job here and trust me it takes a lot to impress me :).

BTW I aint but kissing I am just stating the truth.

Well there is no harm i guess in kids making a bit of pocket money is there!

But only if someone asks them to do some direct work to their board.

maybe be a idea to setup a forum for work requests and stop all the signature adverts all together.

Cos I have requested some php work from the forums at times, and really didnt feel there was a good area to put it in, and dont like to bug people with private messages.

Just an idea anyhow.

Freddie raises some very valid points....

This community is what we make of it. Its in our own best interest to develop it into something meaningful. A place where we can exchange idea's and assist one other with projects that will in the end benifit us all.

I know I'm not a big poster here but I thought I'd throw my 11 cents in and give the 'non-hack-writer' perspective.

Completely agree on not selling hacks on here. My personal opinion is, if someone wants a hack and wants to pay someone to write it for them, that's fine but they should conduct that via pm, email or similar. Once you start selling things, people get really petty and the community is lost (imo).

I really think there's a good community here. Yeah, sometimes someone comes on and makes inappropriate comments, but for the most part, the people here are great and very willing to help out each other. I joined another forum for vb and although I highly respect the work of the board founder, the behavior of the members (towards me and also towards each other) just did not make me feel comfortable or like that is even a place I want to spend time at.

Firefly, Freddie and all the staff here are terrific and will help out people like me with their dumb questions (lol) - and though I may feel a little stupid asking things, I never feel like I'm going to be ridiculed or put down for asking it. I always feel comfortable asking questions or trying to help out others if I have a suggestion.

And I completely agree with Reeve that this should be a place for us all to exchange ideas and help each other, rather than people constantly saying "That's mine! or You stole my idea!"

:)

I just wanted to add that I think Chen is doing a great job with vb.org. However he is just one person. A successful forum of this size needs more than one active Moderator.

I try to help the best I can but I'm not a PHP programmer. Obviously this severely limits my usefulness here.

<wacky idea>
Install Karma here
</wacky idea>

It would stop the bad attitude from older registered members as they watch their karma get whacked to the red.

It would let you reward good hack writers with a little appreciation and could replace hack count.

Anytime you give special recognition to someone who does something alot (could be posts or releases hacks) then someone will do it alot, shoddily, just to get on the top 10 list. With karma, you don't show any raw numbers and there is no top 10 list.

As one of those who 'sells' his work, why should everything be free? You paid for vBulletin because you saw it was a product that took a lot of work to produce. They can offer it for a very reasonable price because of the volume they sell. If someone has a hack that took 4 weeks to perfect and 4 months to test, this is a free market planet and if they can make a buck for it, great.

I honestly don't hang around the Requests room so perhaps I am missing the point of this argument if people are always replying to requests with bidding wars.. that is not the point.

I release almost every useful feature that I write for vBulletin.. free of charge. It's not always the prettiest code or the simplest install because I write for MY OWN site. I love this community really, but as with everyone else here, our own sites take up a great deal of our time. I don't always have the time or patience to make a nice install file for my hacks... so should I not release them? I will take a look at Chen's masterpiece of vBhacker soon.

I know what you are talking about though with quantity over quality.. I've seen more than a few hacks that were written in a bass-ackwards way or caused far too much dB load when it wasn't necessary.

Despite the attitude, I prefer this place to vB.com and spend at least 10 times longer here each week.

I was not implying that you should not be able to sell a hack, just not on this forum. If this site is here to foster vBulletin hacking than capitalism should be be left at the door.

The 'free market planet' does not help this community grow as a hacking resource for vBulletin unless we want that hacking resource to be only open to those that are willing to pay to play. A lot of the 'pay' stuff isn't even worth being paid for to begin with. Perhaps the Karma is, but not much else (of what is being offered for sale).

I also wan't saying you should go crazy with 'nice installs' or psycho like Kier did with all of his hacks. I was talking about the quality of the code and the queries. Personally, I could care less what the install or instructions look like or if it uses 'vbHacker'.

Just my opinion, Firefly is free to do whatever he wishes with this site.

Points taken, you are correct.

I guess I differentiate between "hacks" that I write and "software" that I write (karma, gallery, faq, etc) that would not be released for free.

I see a few things. I'm not a hacker, I don't have time with a family and a full time job learning php code.

I don't se much to help with, but if I can sometimes I try. I see people getting bitter when someone requests a specific hack in the requests forum. I see other hackers laughing at less expierenced hackers.

This is because I don't see any real sudden moderation in terms of attitudes. At ubbdev I never saw this problem. I moved to vB in november because of this site and the support of vB. The past few weeks I've been tempted to move back just because the general concensus of non-hackers are scared to ask for anythign because they're scared of getting yelled at.

I have been unable to post for the past week due to my stupid cable modem screwing up, though I agree with freddie, too many people are creating half hearted attempts at hacks then just posting them and there is a lack of support for these hacks.

Non-hackers should just simply post in the requests forum asking for a certain hack, but I see more and more people bumping topics just because no one is replied. Maybe hackers should consider posting requests and explaining if they are unreasonable.

Scott

excellent Idea in my opinion. :)

I agree for the most part, there are many hackers/posters here that think this is a big contest and whoever has the largest post/hack count wins something, sorry to say, you don't (at least not that I am aware of).

I like vBulletin.org very much, it has provided me with many add-on features in which are not already in vBulletin (at this time), although some people have an attitude problem that needs to be fixed.

The other thing that I think is basically useless on this website is the shoutbox. I mean no offense to the person who created it (Sinecure), it is a great hack in deed, but I don't think it has a place here on this website. I was told the shout box is basically a place for those people who feel the need to, to spam. Well other than just plain out spam, I see people asking "Why can't I download hacks", "Why do I have to buy vBulletin to download hacks", posting of URL's to the GoatSE stuff, people calling people "Gay" or "Fag", ect. In my honest opinion, there really is not a need for any of that.

vBulletin.org is a great site, I hope it stays good and grows greatly, more than it already has, but some things DO need to change.

SaintDog

Very good point about the Shoutbox. I never go to the Home page and just took a look at it to see what you were talking about. The Shoutbox definitely detracts from the site. Not because it's a bad hack. It's just that the messages there are so childish.

I think access to this site should be given to people who buy vbull and not the scum who download and use it for free.

TBH what the hell are they doing with a copy anyhow if they aint paid for it and what do they think they have a right to on here.

ahhh sod it no one listens to fat people anyhow :)

BTW I agree with smachol on the shout box its sucks and IMHO is controlled and vetted by a select few who jump down anyones throat that they dont like or dont agree with.

Hardly a good advertisement for the site.

HM

With regards to the comment above about shoutbox

Sorry I was under the impression Sinecures m8 created it ?

HM

I dunno, I think most of the shoutboxes are just lame attempts to make a site seem more interactive, or something.
Doesn't really contribute to anything other than flamewars and maybe a few more hits (correct me if I am wrong, but I don't really think vb.org need either of those)...

The Shoutbox became a mess quickly.

Anywhoo, I have nothing to say, I don't think, that hasn't been said already. I think the moderation of the Full Releases forum (which seems utterly ineivtable at this point) will do wonders for the quality of content around here.

/agree

Who ever took the decision to remove the shout box has my blessing and made the right choice.

HM

I was just going to post that but i decided to use your quote instead :D

I also noticed theres no post count next to our names or hack count. I think the hack count being taken away was a good idea but I liked the posts being there.

My .02.

First, I am a vB user with a site to run and not a hacker. I haven't posted much because I don't have time to hang out. The only reason I come here is to search for solutions to problems or hunt for hacks that will make my site better and more functional. This community is the beauty of vBulletin! vBulletin.com & .org ARE the reason I decided to purchase vB.

Since purchasing vB, I have lurked on these boards in an effort to get a feel for the community and to determine who was really here to help and who was not. Unfortunately, from the start, it was clear to me that newbies & their pesky questions were not appreciated. From what I have seen when evaluating several of these boards, I guess this is as professional as it gets in this business although some are worse than others.

In my opinion it is alarming to see the large number of questions & requests that are ignored or impolitely dismissed. This is too bad because it leaves many vB users without help which is exactly why this place exists, correct?.

I disagree with the notion that paid hacks are a bad thing. If paying for it is the only way I can get a needed hack done, I will gladly pay for it provided it is finished in a timely manner and done correctly the first time. Please, don't take that option away from us, it may be the only way to get some hacks done. Just make the process easier.

Perhaps a real solution is to separate all the "paid" hacks from the "freebies" by confining them to a "Hacks for Sale" forum. All business/whinning can be conducted there. Then change the current "Hacks" database to "Free Hacks". Additionally, it would be a good idea to do away with all of the advertising in the sigs.

Furthermore, establish a "Paid Hack Request" forum where anyone willing to pay for a hack can post a request. Of course, this would be separate from the regular request forum and for most, would be a last resort.

As previously suggested, maybe ALL hackers should be rated on the Quality of their hacks and/or the Service provided, instead of the number of hacks produced? This would provide the non-hackers a way of determining who to approach to get quality work done. I think this would separate the men from the boys in a hurry!

Lastly, if a hacker agrees to take on a job, paid or otherwise, they should make every effort to complete the job in a timely manner or at a minimum, give regular updates as the job progresses. I don't think that is unreasonable and would help solve the problem that was mentioned above by a Hacker that was tired of being harrassed.

Case in point, one hacker (namless) has committed to several hacks I have requested and I have yet to see one of them completed. I haven't had any progress reports and have no way of knowing where the project(s) stand because I do not want to harrass him. He did not have to take them on, he chose to... Because he was the only one to respond to my queries, I am afraid to inquire as I do not want to anger him into quiting. I need the hacks and no one else volunteered. What's a newbie to do?

Anyway, thanks for all the work, despite its drawbacks, it is the best forum software out there!

If someone commits to writing a hack for free for you than you really have no recourse against them if they choose not to.

Everyone has a right to sell hacks and the right to purchase hacks. Doing so does not promote the expansion of the hacking community since those activities are limited to a small group of people.

If this forum was split up into a 'free' section and a 'paid' section than that would almost beg for a competitive hacking site to open up that has a strict no asking for and no selling policy.

It is all moot as I have the feeling that the site will continue on as it is. You can post hacks for sale if you want, right along the free hacks. Hacker X sees hacker Y is making a few bucks so he decides to try it. Hacker Z then sees what is going on so he tries it out. Soon enough, everyone is only offering hacks for money and we have constant arguments over the point of the community. It is no longer a community but a trading post.

It is vb.org, not vb.com.

Paid hacks should be left to private messages and emails.

i dont see why a hacker would get angry if another hacker will request help? i write sometimes hacks, but i'm not affraid to ask for help. i know for a fact that i got help here in those forums from day one. think also this way: maybe the hackers who say your request had no clue about the code design... and the ones that knew about it, probably were involved in other personal projects. dont be affraid to post. it's all in the way you layout the words (i speak in general now)...

feel free to open a thread in Requests, this where all experienced hackers look first to come up with new cool ideas. :)

First of all, after answering the same question again and again, just because someone did not bother to use the search feature, or read the whole thread gets old after a while. And it only makes longer threads with more crap to sift through to find the answers for those that actually want to research their problem before asking.

I am convinced that a great part of questions that are ignored are from users who read the first post in a thread, downloaded the hack, was in a hurry so they made a mistake that left their board unusable and just hit the reply button shouting 'why is your stupid hack not working'.

For people considering installing hacks I would expect at least SOME research before asking questions. I would expect them to check through the installation instructions carefully before having a go at it, and I would expect them to try it out on a dev board first, so that in case it breaks something - for whatever reason - it is not critical that it be fixed at once. How many times have you seen people demanding help because they broke their board?

Now don't get me wrong. I actually enjoy helping people, but this is a community of volunteers and we all do what we do here because we enjoy it. The minute some n00b that hardly knows what a browser is comes pushing demands down my throat, I do not feel like helping anymore.

IMHO, these things should be at iwanttobuyavbhack.biz or something.

exacly. in my personal oppinion, is up to the hacker what he does, but he must give something to the community first. if he wants to make money, he can do it on his own website, not here. there is the place to talk about money, and vB.org is not one of them.

take an example: me and vbHome. i will release the full version when my website will be online. and trust me, i will not place a link in my signature about this. i learned from other hackers here that a signature is not an advertising board for a business.

in few words: vB.org is not an money making machine. is a site where people gather to get cool things for their boards, for free.

Hi,

if someone posted this already or if I miss the theme then sorry (I don't really speak english :( )

Suggestions:

• Allow posts like "I search a hack xxx. I like to pay for it, please contact me via PM"
• Disallow posts like "look, I sell a hack"
• Allow users to post full tested hacks with no or bad support. The user must write that there will be no support. There are users that wants to share hacks but don't speak english.
• Not for "BETA Hacks": disallow users to post a full release without an example (image or homepage), so that you can see that it works.
• Not for "BETA Hacks": Disallow new threads in "Full realease". Create a new forum "Hack Feedback" and disallow new threads. Let the user post new hacks directly in the hack database. This generates 2 threads: one support thread and one feedback thread for posts like "let me kiss your hand", "look to the image of my board" and so on. (I know that this requires a big hack for this board, but IMHO that makes the board more clearly).

Ok, now I am 30 minutes older and I don't know if somone understands. I do the last suggestion in german.

Macht ein neues Forum "Hack Feedback" auf. Verbietet hierin und im Forum "Full Releases" das Erstellen neuer Threads. Stattdessen posten die Benutzer ihre Hacks direkt in der Datenbank. Darauf hin werden automatisch 2 Threads generiert: Ein Supportthread in "Full Releases" und einer in "Hack Feedback". Letzterer f?r die Dankesschreiben.

Das erfordert zwar einen gr??eren Hack in diesem Board, aber ich sch?tze dies w?rde alles viel ?bersichtlicher machen.

I am very glad that I can find solutions to my forum problems, where I fail to do so with templates. And I think I can get the help here. The team behind vB org is doing good job (and fast). But I am scared to ask a stupid question, because I feel I am immediatly put in a box that is tagged 'lamer'. I do not have this feeling on vB com.

I am sorry to see the shoutbox go, because its a nice hack and looks fun on the portal. But I am happy it is not there no more, since it is not really something that contributes to this site. And the content of the posts aren't 'really' fun to read.

I have seen a lot of full releases that I consider beta stage .. even if I do not know much enough php/mysql to write my own. But there are a lot of good quality hacks out there, like vBstats and those little ones that improve the look of a board. They do not result in 50 extra queries per page load.

I seriously dislike seeing hacks that I need to pay for. For the simple reason that I personally will not purchase any. (This doesn't mean I do not understand why someone would ask money for it!). At least show your 'free' hacks here, and use the signature to inform us you have made more hacks, and they are for purchase. And use your own forum for support.

I am fairly new to this site, since January, but the last somewhat weeks it started to look somewhat messy to me. The new green theme is a nice improvement. It makes it look more professional, instead of 'warez' like.

Restrickting users for downloads and/or even reading threads/attachments is a good idea. Making this public for license holders is a nice idea. And I support that.

Even though I sound negative at times in this post, I do respect the help and support from other members from this board. And the time they put into making code-modifications for the vBulletin forum. And I also have respect for the team behind this web site. For they have done a bloody great job.

i must not agree with you. i ask all the time newbie style questions and nobody laugh at me (well only once it happened).

nakkid, are you talking about me again? lol Just kidding :)

Anyway, I disagree with that quote as well. Or, actually, I just feel the exact opposite. I always feel that my questions are answered here and that I get help when I need/ask for it - I feel ignored at .com (nothing against the site team there).

I agree with all of what freddie said. if people want to sell something, they should find other venues with which to market their product. vbulletin.org it a place for people to download open-source modifications to vbulletin, not to bid and market hacks that cost money.

And I have never been 'scared' to ask questions. Almost ALL of my questions have been answered on vb.org and vb.com, but i always do a search for the question & the answer, and usually will try my hardest to figure it out myself before I ask. Usually, after all of that, the question will obviously have some merit being answered as noone else has asked it!

I also believe that more careful moderation would be very helpful. Some of the people here are very snappy (to each other) and some moderation would really help.

And about the community, I usually spend most of my time socializing at vbulletin.com because the people in the chitchat forum are usually and generally more mature, and the moderation seems a bit stricter. So yes, I avoid the community here, I usually just stop by the general hacking discussion forum and the full releases once a day and that's it.