Misc/Other - vBulletin.Org Staff
 

As many of you will know, vbulletin.org has always prided itself on being an independant site, making its own choices, and chosing its own staff (all of who are unpaid volunteers).

Unfortunately, this all changed four weeks ago.

Having left employment with IB the week before, I made it clear I intended to keep up my role as Administrator here - a position I was appointed to way back in September 2006, almost five years before I ever worked at Internet Brands.

However, on 2nd June 2017 (while I was away on holiday) I was (on the instructions of IB Management) removed from my Administrator role, and demoted to Moderator (by IB staff, not by our other admins, Lynne and Princeton). The reason given to me was that I am "no longer employed by IB".

This is despite the fact that IB employment and staff positions here have never been linked.

The staff here are all angry, and for the last few weeks we have tried to get IB management to see this isnt the right thing to have done.
They have refused to change the decision, and so it is with much regret that myself, and most of the existing staff are in the process of stepping down.

Over the next few weeks, Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Dismounted, Princeton and myself (Paul M) will all be stepping down.

Lynne has also announced she is resigning from vB Support.

My understanding is that TheLastSuperman intends to stay on for the moment (so really will be the Last (super) Man standing).

I believe our advisor Dave is also remaining for the moment.

I'm afraid I do not know what the future holds for vbulletin.org, or who from IB will be running it.
However, it has become clear it is no longer "our" site to run - as has previously been done for the last 15+ years.

It has been a privilege to serve as a Moderator here and to be a part of so many people's forums in one way or another. I'm not necessarily abandoning vBulletin.org completely (unless I get banned for some reason) but you can find me on my main forum, juot.net, or I may hopefully get my VB Mods site cleaned up at qapla.com/mods/. My twitter is @BirdOPrey5.

I will miss a free and independent vBulletin.org. Attachment 156503

I'm sorry you're leaving

--------------- Added [DATE]1498862611[/DATE] at [TIME]1498862611[/TIME] ---------------

Without you vbulletin.org does not exist

I too feel it has been a great privilege to serve as a moderator here. I learned a great deal from folks here, and met quite a few good people. It's a real shame all that has been ruined.

I am in the process of moving support for my products to the site in my signature...once I have completed the process, I will update my signature with a direct link.

Although I don't generally post here, I do spend a fair amount of time browsing and I'd just like to say to everyone stepping down, thank you for all your contributions to this forum. I have no doubt you will all be greatly missed.

I would like to offer my services to be an admin or moderator! I've been using vBulletin since 2004, written several mods and am pals with a (former) staff member.

This is terrible....

Very much so...

There is not a staff member on this list who has not helped me repeatedly over the years. This sucks. Seems like an unnecessary and destructive decision. Forum communities are supposed to be about the members who support them, not about petty politics or power struggles.

Pretty shabby treatment of folks who have selflessly given of their time, energy, and love over countless years.

I think many will find other resources for their vB help.

It's never too late to do the right thing.

Sad news but respect to the staff for standing up to bad practices. I hope something good can come of this on another site.

It was not easy for me to make the decision to leave since I really do love this community. This is the place where I learned to love vbulletin and what it could do for my site. In learning, I found that I loved to teach and help also. I will miss helping out here a LOT! I am very thankful to Paul, Princeton, and Hanson taking me on as an Advisior back in 2008 and giving me a place to have so much fun in learning.

Believe me, we have tried for the last three weeks to change their decision - they won't suddenly do the right thing.

Long story, short:
Thank you all (especially Lynne) for your support.

More than 4 years ago have wrote:
"vBulletin.org should not exists at least the way that is operating now".
Don't say that I'm happy with what happen but somehow I was a fortune teller.

Just wow ... can't say I didn't see this coming .... really sucks when there is no compromise between 2 sides to keep something good going ... sorry guys, thanks for all the help throughout the years, it was and is still very much welcomed and appreciated ....

:confused: I'm speechless with your post !!

Obviously people need to do what they feel is right, but I urge you, even if you will stop supporting them, leave your mods up if you can. You aren't hurting IB, they don't care. You're only hurting existing customers who can't get refunds and are no different than any of us were our first days/weeks/months on vBulletin.

I haven't given up all hope. As of 5AM Eastern Time only one small change is needed to the staff page to set things right again-

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=staff

IB really are gifted strategic thinkers :rolleyes:

Thank you Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Dismounted, Princeton and Paul M for your selfless dedication to helping us on here over the years; I have lost count of how many times you have saved my skin and sanity.

Also, I have mods & fixes installed from almost all of you which imho have made VB 4.x exponentially better.

Joe are you reffering to me?

I'm referring to everyone reading this, including fellow (former?) staffers. I'm keeping my mods on the site, they should all be considered unsupported, but they will stay up as long as this site wants them. My concern is for the innocent user who has been using a mod for a while and needs to redownload a copy for whatever reason, I've been one of those users and clicked on the link in Product Manager only to find some mod no longer available because the coder had disagreements with the direction of the company. I'm not going to be one of those coders. But that's just me. I would ask others join me, but I understand those who cannot.

As for me, I'm very strict on my moral values (without any mean that other who are doing the opposite, they don't have their own values). What happen with IB and all of you there, I count it as a back-kick. My English don't allow me to explain it deeper as I don't know the rights words to use to express my feelings.

As long as this site will stops working with people that I know (even just as names), and will be controlling by company's staff, sorry, this is no place for me anymore.

Leaving my work here, while I'll be away, is not wise as I don't know how they'll use them (the mods). If someone wants to find my mods, he knows where to find me.

Same here. I would also urge everyone who has published any products here to take some time to consider your decision regarding whether you are going to leave your work here or not. In the end, I respect everyone's right to make their own decision of course, but I ask that this decision not be made in haste. :)

As long as from now on vbulletin.org -> vbulletin.com, I'm out. In a couple of days my mods should be again available for free download but in another site for Forum Admins. To avoid breaking the TOS, I'm not posting the link, but sure you'll find it.

Internet Brands seems to be consciously seeking out new ways to decimate the future of the vBulletin product. To what end?

vBulletin 4.x would never have become a viable product without each and every one of the staff here at vBulletin.org. Some thanks this is for seven years of blood, sweat and tears on that product and those which came before it.

It's clearly and convincingly all about the vB5.x product now. None of the people named work exclusively or primarily on that product and so were deemed dispensable.

I know this has been stated by others here and previously but the contributions of the vB.org staff to the vBulletin forum community cannot be overstated.

A personal thank you to each of you for making this product the best it could be despite opposition.

Each of you will be sorely missed.

Did you check all the pockets?

Speaking as someone who has relied on this site to improve the user experience of my own sites, this is a disaster both for vB and for the individuals concerned. I say this because I was a senior mod on a major site and got shafted by the owner. I still can't put the betrayal behind me.

I hope IB will change their mind before it's too late, but I have a feeling they will not do that.

vbulletin.org is a very important site and is probably one of the reasons why some people choose for vBulletin instead of other forum software. Personally I chose for vBulletin because it provided all the plugins and modifications that I was looking for, I even forward clients of mine to this site when they are considering to get vBulletin.

Without this site and the current staff team, I'm afraid it will turn into void.

With vbulletin saying version 4.2.5 will be the last upgrade for that version, and not wanting to go to what seems like a very different platform in version 5, this nonsense will likely push me to move on from vBulletin entirely. This site has served as the core support forum for vBulletin users for many years. Allowing a decades worth of expertise to leave over some silly and petty issue of control is just blatantly disrespectful to the membership of this community and those of us who have invested thousands of dollars over the years in vB products and add-ons.

Top tier companies do not actively alienate their own customers.

This is what pisses me off the most ; I could easily have about 30 to 40 coders and sites pull their support from here and transfer to a different software (even if it was free to use and not so good) but in the end it will hurt those who paid for this software more than anything.

Paul was the single best thing that VB has ever had / seen and to lose that due to such a self inflicted wound by IB is absurd ; they just won't listen to reason. I have made my own feelings clear over the last several weeks but like you said, I can't follow through in executing this all as it will just hurt a bunch of innocent users / start up sites.

:mad::mad::mad:

--------------- Added [DATE]1498936714[/DATE] at [TIME]1498936714[/TIME] ---------------

Agreed, VB is dead without you all.

I suppose in theory, their behavior makes sense. They are trying their best to remove free modifications as much as possible (for 5) so a place like this (offering so much instrumental support and help) hurts their back pocket / bottom dollar.

God are they about to find out how wrong they have it / how such a boycott will destroy them.

Maybe that is what needs to happen so the holdouts migrate to something else and what's left of VB shrinking market evaporates.

RIP vB.org, you will never be the same and we will miss you greatly.

I think most of us gave up on IB a few years ago. I have one forum left on vb4... vb will never be on option and now it appears I will have to accelerate to move away from my last vb4 forum.

Have to agree to all posters before.
Me does not write anything "own" here, because this would me not only get banned here... :mad:

Hey everyone, I'm actually very depressed over this truth be told but please don't let this turn into a vB/IB Bashfest, I simply won't allow it, we've always tried to prevent that and will continue to do so even in this thread. If you want to comment and let everyone know how much they're loved and will be missed then sure but we simply wanted to give all of you a heads up that changes are coming, this does not mean the end but certainly feels like it sadly.

Sad to hear :(, You guys done great work and always supported me when needed.
All the best!

A sincere THANK YOU to all who have volunteered and are stepping down.

The direction of the product and IB are not looking healthy AT ALL, in my opinion. They've chased away most of the customers, now the staff. It took too many years for VB5 to become a viable/stable product, and it wasn't until recently that it started to be something I would consider. (I did buy it a few years ago, but went back) Meanwhile, vb4 was left to age and become stale. Meanwhile, Facebook and the competition have kept innovating.

I think maybe a different pricing model would have been healthier for the company, like Xenforo has, with a reasonable yearly fee that supports ongoing development. The current method starves the company at the very time they need the resources to put out a new version number that lets them collect money again, so it comes up short of its goals. (or at least that's how it looks to this customer)

THANK YOU to the volunteers!

A perfect example of corporate blind stupidity.

IB Brands has no idea what they are losing. They just fired the final shot into their own foot.

shocked. emailing Lisa.

Sadly news to read! The wonderful people here were one of our main reasons and points to stay at least with one licence left for vb 3.x from at all three vb licences in the past 12 years.

I want to say a big THANKYOU for all you did in the past for us!

I would like to ask everyone to speak up about this.

As a long time member here I do not plan on sitting back without at least sending an email or two to the people that could fix this. I hope others will do the same.

I cannot really see myself participating here any longer without the good people that have educated me, the people I know, like and trust.

Those people have been by and large remiss to give us so much as the time of day. Lawrence Cole may have been the last IB three letter acronym with whom one could at least hold a discussion, even if he didn't see eye-to-eye or felt his hands were tied.

IB is so proud of the vBulletin product that it doesn't even appear under any of the "Our Brands" tabs on their main website.

The list of people who will never give us the time of day includes but is not limited to Robert Brisco, Scott Friedman, Chuck Hoover, Lisa Morita, Joe Rosenblum, B. Lynn Walsh, Gregory Perrier, and the person specifically brought in to repair the sinking ship that is vBulletin 5, Marjo Mercado.

This is not a "bashfest" as someone recently termed it. This is straight fact.

In any business, if you want to fix a product, you speak with the consumers or customers who purchase the product. IB has never done that. They have always used their customer support team as human shields against any criticism, constructive or otherwise.

vBulletin is one spoke in a very large IB wheel, and the evidence is clear an convincing they couldn't care less if the spoke is tightened or falls off.

That's why the customer support team is so important and valuable to the product. They actually do care. Every one of them has gone far above and beyond what IB would have allowed had there been a standard operating procedure or a manual. The staff here has saved more customers than vBulletin 5 has created or ever will create.

If the facts are a bashfest then maybe IB should have handled things differently.

So, I have been pondering how to reply to this - my apologies in advance for any offense I cause. Whether or not I am accurate, I have no clue, but the optics on this....is another matter.

You're a great guy, so I don't mean this personally but of what has been indicated is that you are one of only two remaining on the team, for now. Yet, at the same time, just about every other person here has called VB / IB out on their turd of a choice - you are the only one here who is arguing their side / defending them.

I am not saying that it is the case, but the optics look like you're the one person staying on, and doing their bidding. They have you staying on, and the puppet masters are pulling the strings already. That is a very harsh line to say if I am wrong, so if I am I sincerely apologize but just look at the way it looks. Do they care about the position it likely leaves you in now? I think we all know that they don't. No matter whether it is accurate or not, you are now being left out there to hang because the perception is now likely worse than the reality. The way forums operate, it will be difficult to salvage a reputation out of this.

You said that you didn't want this to turn into an IB / VB bash fest - what did you expect? For people to agree with the decision? People to respectfully disagree and continue to spend on licenses, support and additional software?

Like you said, you are depressed about this, which is totally understandable? The fact that everyone else is, and angry seems reasonable (for them) to be allowed to air their grievance, no? Their hurt and depression is just as (if not more) recognizable / to be recognized as anyone else.

I know that it is not my place to ask this, but you said that you simply wouldn't allow it to continue - so I guess I would ask other staff to leave it to your call. If you think my post is so out of line, remove it. If you think that I am not worthy to remain here, boot me. At this point TLS, you can be the arbitrator given that just about everyone else cannot stomach what IB is doing to VB yet you are telling everyone not to bash them. By all means, everyone can accept that it is not your or anyone else to blame on the VBorg staff.

At the same time though, please let the users who paid for this software air their displeasure at the decision. After all, it is only in defense of those of you that are admins and mods on here that everyone is so angry ; not for themselves, but for you.

TLS, I have to ask you (not meaning to be flippant) but if Paul is not re-instated to the role(s) that he held previously, what other possible outcome could there be other than, "the end"?

It is in the love that everyone feels for all of you that some of this ill temper and grief is coming out. Because nobody thinks that it is fair the way that you have been treated. More than any money that any of us have put into the site, it is the love for you as people that has indeed hurt so many ; not because of anything that you have done but because seeing someone you care about being treated so badly is going to hurt, no matter who you are.

Again, if I have inaccurately portrayed any of this, my apologies and if you think my post rises to the level of IB bashing that you talk of, then please do remove it / and or me if you see the need, but please, you make the call. If you think my message is out of line, then you make the call.