Just downgraded to vBulletin 3
 

I had the latest vBulletin 4.11.1 Patch Level 1 before but upon viewing some of the most visited forums in the world like Crackberry, Wilder Security, Anandtech, and even this site I noticed they are all using vbullerin v3 and I liked the interface much more than v4. It is very simple and effecient, and the smilies look more professional rather than cartoony although that is not my reason to switch obviously since you can change those manually but just saying...

A few questions:

1) Any idea why these large forums still stick to v3 rather than upgrade to v4?

2) Am I missing on any security features by downgrading to v3? I did install the latest 3.8.7 .... does vBulletin continuously release updates for the older v3 ?

3) Am I the only one who sees v3 better than v4 in terms of UI and speed?

1) Maybe they are too heavily modded up with modifications which work just how they want them and don't want to go through the pain of up dating them or finding out they can't get what they need.

2) I think the latest 3.8.x is as secure as anything else

3) i thought the same say 2 years back, but now I love the look of vb4 and find vb3 and outdated look., however I found the vb3 much faster to load and get around.

thank you for your detailed answers.

And yes I am liking the increased speed pages load snappier and a few things like...when you highlight some text then click on the URL button to add a link....that used to take like a second or two with vB4 but not it happens instantly! :D

I also like how you can select the font color size, font type and smilies from a drop down list, much more compact and usable design...

just my 2 cents

Just click on the link in my sig and browse around a little bit and youll see the speed

I am slowly restoring the threads as the database conversion from v4 to v3 didn't work out so I ended up creating a whole new database.

didn't have any members anyway since my forums are new

I do love vb4 but its just pain in a but, CMS is far from functional and good option which we have with vb4, its not displayed in all browsers in same way, way too many bugs and looks like vb development team is thinking just about $....

Just don't like it more as I did when I bought my licence with vb3, probably I will never leave VB but before I was never thinking about alternative to VB, now I do think about that

Using VB4 now, would never downgrade from vb4 to vb3, rather would think of some free software than that...

Ohh trust me.. I've tried that first...had nightmares with phpBB3....maybe other alternatives are better I don't know...

Read this bro: Why I ditched phpBB3 and upgraded to vBulletin!

I wouldnt downgrade from 4 to 3 , If i wanted the look and feel of VB3 i would have just made a theme to look exactly like VB3. Your a braver man than me.

UI can be replicated , Speed will increase with a more light weight theme which doesnt have all the CSS3 styling attached, Not only that but VB4 can be made fast enough so you wouldnt notice the difference .

VB4 offers better functionality, better on page SEO and all the bloat can be removed.

So why is this site, notebook review forums, wilder security forums, crackberry forums, and many others, which have thousands of users still use v3? Just because they dont want to go through the headaches of finding alternatives to their plugins/mods?

I feel it is a bit more than that

Large sites generally dont upgrade unless they need too, why does everyone feel that because there is a new version every site has to upgrade. Large forum owners or in many cases large company forums do have so many custom modification it wouldnt be cost effective to upgrade , expense wise or time wise.

They also have the resources to maintain, develop and secure highly customised board so they rarely have any need for external support or support from such people as vbulletin them selves.

There isnt a massive conspiracy as to why some forums dont upgrade, VB4 is a better system.

It will be a case with many people though, why fix something that isnt broken.

I wasnt aware that your board was brand new when you said you downgraded however which is why i thought it was suicide waiting to happen, but still starting a new board i would want to remain in the loop for as long as possible rather than jumping back on a script which doesnt have the support it once did.

Well I wasn't very happy when I contacted support via the ticket system to help me with converting my database using IMPEX from vB4 to vb3 because no matter what I did in the config file of IMPEX it couldn't connect to my vb4 database. I triple checked the settings and Im sure it was something simple to fix but they wouldn't help me telling me I have exceeded the 30 day limit of free tech support :rolleyes:

Very disappointing from a company that charged me an arm and a leg for a forums license

The "why hasn't this site updated" needs to be asked to those forum owners.
There are 1000's of reasons why large sites wouldn't upgrade, and many have nothing to do with the framework.

vB Support will not help you to use Impex to upgrade, or downgrade, your support. Using Impex in that way is not supported. Period.

I know I haven't upgraded my site because it is heavily modified. I'd love to upgrade to the Suite, but I just don't have the time to go and upgrade my custom tracker code.

Personally, I think 3.x looks very dated. It only fills half of my screen, for example. It's back from the 1024x768 era, and looks like some other (free) products.

Sites probably haven't updated because "if its not broke, don't fix it" 3.x was a stable product, back in its peak time, several years ago. They may also have a lot of customizations, don't want to pay for the current version, or perhaps the staff that installed it for them is no longer part of the picture (they may lack the technical resources or courage to do it).

I hope 3.x is sent off into the sunset soon, so they can focus more on future products 4.2 and 5.0. It seems like many developers have already done so.

I agree with some other posts that some new and innovative ideas/leadership are needed, to make the product stay at the cutting edge. They seem to be treading water at the moment, but the 4.x product is rock solid reliable and does the job well.

Keep up the great work!

Rhody

PS: vbulletin.org should probably be updated, to set the example :)

berryracer you have posted some very interesting questions, in particular the comment regarding the security aspects of 3.8.7 versus 4.XX

I notice that bulletin.org is showing 3.6.12 on their pages.

My question regarding upgrading from an earlier version of vBulletin, namely 3.6.8 is do I have to upgrade all the way through to 4.XX or can I stop at 3.8.7 with the upgrade process to preserve the original templates.

I've added things over the years and the more I look at what is involved the more I shy away from doing anything!

So ignoring the improvements to user interface in vB4, can vB3 be made as secure without all the major upheaval of moving from vB3 to vB4?

Yes you can, there is two separate packages in your vbulletin members account , one for the latest version of vb3 and the other VB4, just download the one you want.

There will still be templates that will need editing from 3.6 - 3.8 but it will retain structure and you should be able to upgrade with out much of an issue.

There is also security patches for older versions to make them just as secure, security is only as strong as the latest patches and of course your host.

It's not like vb3 will leave you less secure.

As long as you are running the latest version of vb3

I am running the latest vBulletin v3.8.7 which has all the security patches

So if you want vb4, install 4.11.1 Patch level 1. If you want vb3, install v3.8.7. as simple as that

IMHO the vb3 is just much much more stable than vb4, period.
The customizations is also the king. For forums with just a few modification like installed popular addons or just a custom theme it's not a problem to upgrade. But when a forum is heavily modified and there is plenty of custom code implemented in original vb files too, rewritten functions, custom written mods etc the upgrading would be a huge challenge.
And tell me what vb4 has that vb3 doesn't or cannot have with mods on?
Subject of vb3 vs vb4 has been discussed hundreds of times anyway just google it.

I run a big board and am still on vb3. I speak to a lot of other big board owners. Most "would not touch vb4 with a ten feet pole". (exact quote)
vb4 offers nothing of interest that makes it worth while to migrate to that. It does have:

• 800 bugs. Even though there were thousands more, 800 bugs is still an insane amount.
• an aborted rewrite. Meaning spaghetti code and low coding quality.
• looks just as outdated as vb3. It can not exactly compete with XF or IPB. lol.
• the vbCMS suicide issue
• various unwanted addons no one asked for. (which can be disabled)

So with these handicaps, what does it offer to make it worthwhile to upgrade?
Currently nothing that I see within vbulletin.

What is worth considering is certain addons only available for vb4.

I run a couple of vb4's and I like each release more and more BUT my main forum is on 3.8 and I've no immediate plans to upgrade (even though I was in the vb4 presale rush.) I'm hopeful of a summer upgrade but I was hopeful last summer too.

*sigh*

1. No it doesnt (as has been pointed out to you time and time again).
2. I'll grant you its a bit spaghetti in places, but most users dont care about the code. Calling it "Low Quality" is just pure rubbish.
3. Thats pure personal opinion, not fact.
4. What ? Talk about being a drama queen, Suicide ? I dont think so.
5. The fact you dont care for them is again purely personal preference, not fact.

Again and again this question:rolleyes: Finally it became boring. Everybody has it own reasons to use one version or the other. All reasons are respectfull but ...follow your heart as a well known slongan says.
The company gives you the freedom to download any version you want. If you're expecting to find the right answer here, you're wasting your time. There is no right answer.

Chris

Alfa1, why is it you're in virtually every vB4 thread (on here and .com) posting negative and, often, downright false comments?

I think vBulletin 3 is the best, if you think it looks outdated, go make custom theme or something. It functions right, it runs great, nothing to complain about. vB4 doesn't bring much in the table, in my opinion. Sure, it has new code and whatnot, but still, nothing that can't be done in vBulletin 3. Latest Posts, etc. Sidebars can definitely be done in vB3. Dun know, just giving my opinion.

Paul, I know you might be tired of those complaints.

I am one of the oldie-ones.

The fact is that my users, my moderators, myself and even my grandma hated vB4.
Due to:

- new functions nobody wanted to be implemented (great devel procedure!)
- complete rebuild of basic social functions touch & feel (example: attachment management is pure nightmare, far far far away from today's simplicity, so called Shrek technology)
- complete rebuild of server requirements followed by complete lack of professional migration hand-out & explanation (yeah, the small ones could migrate. not me.)
- vbcms is a mistake, if you go over a market of cms-systems of today; it looks and works like in 1980's; we do run FREE OF CHARGE system, which is eons better than your paid one;
- run away from table html to div format for a text based, multilingual forums because of some nuts told you to do so... maybe because it is a fashion... my forums are smashed with it. surely becasue I am stupid and agressive.

Last but not least. We're having millions of users. Some of us millions of income. We choose to vb3 because of its stability and predictability. We finance you. And you give a shit about us.

What a great customer service.

Bye.

I personally LOVE how VB 3 was and VB4 was a pain to work with. Still I do run one forum on VB3 (didn't like the idea to pay again almost full price to upgrade to 4) and 2 forums on VB4. Never had the idea to 'downgrade the 2 of them to VB3 though, even if there are many forums still using the previous version and using it well

I once asked here why this site wasn't upgraded, I got several answers and they were all the same thing: "Why fix something that isn't broken?"

Of course vb crew will defend vb4 as much as they can, that's their work to do.
Well, there are some good things in vb4 but bad ones dominate imo. The only think I find in vb4 that interests me are some mods that are not available for vb3. I've tested many forum scripts including new xenforo, phpbb3, smf, ipboard, vb4, and I still would pick vb3 over any other. :)

I don't think that vb crew defend vB4, but I think is boring (if not frustating) to have to reply in a dozen of threads for the same topic. Even me I've started one (or participated to it, don't really remember). I think that sometime this topic must be left out of discussion.

Just curiously. What type of mod you can't find for vB3?:confused: I believe that is just the opposite.

Chris
...without 8:D

For example your one, classified adds mod, you released once vb4 version here (I think you have removed it then not so long ago) but never vb3.

Another good example would be vbblog made by vBulletin Solutions themselves, vb4 comes with it but vb3 vbblog not only is abandoned as for development but also totally difficult to get because vbulletin decided to no longer offer it, whatever the reasons are and the license can be obtained only from a third party which is huge pain. That's really mayor addon I think and many people constantly ask about it.

Some coders also abandon development of vb3 versions of their mods while they still continue with vb4 versions which is quite logical especially when they upgraded their own boards as well.

Well, there are plenty of other mods available for vb4 but not for vb3 and vice versa. I think there is no point in listing them all here. Nonetheless I'm not complaining, if I really need something I write it or I hire someone to write it for me treating it as the cost of business and fun. As long as vb3 is still there to buy and download and security updates are released it's all good I think. However, people should have the right of choice, especially when they paid for it. :)

VB4
is more faster than vb3
and I like the VB3 style and look
also to view one post was a good option in VB3

I'm same to see the big Forums and the high rank at Alexa.com still use VB3

I think latest version of VB3 is secure as latest version of VB4

Yea I don't know why they got rid of showing one post.

I was generally unimpressed with all of these sites. Two of them could not be more boring and the other appeared to be it a state of total chaos. My guess it those sites have an user post average of about 3. The only reason to join is to ask the same question "which one should I buy?"

Some of those numbers seem a little suspicious to me. I've seen sites were they boast 15 bazillion members and when you go into the forum, there are 25 threads with 2.5 million views and 3 replies.

Crackberry is much slower than my site, but I don't think it's the program that affects the speed...isn't that a server issue?

I'm still very new to this vb thing, but after a somewhat frustrating year, I'm really beginning to like the program. In my opinion, vb4 is the best forum I've ever used as a forum member or owner. The two main reasons I've warmed up to vb4 is because of the hosting I have with KevinL of HostAtom and my designer/manager Socialteenz. Both are members here and are highly recommended.

I can't do anything for the other mods, but as for classifieds, you can email me and I'll send you Mary's Classifieds for vB3 for free. Is not the same as the vB4 version, but I really liked it. I believe that it has more features than vB4 version, even if you need a bit time to setup it, as there are lots of features to set per category. A limitation can occurs if you want categories more than 3 levels in depth.

Chris

I believe it had to do with "double content" penalties from search engines. Or at least that was the only explanation I heard that made much sense. Seems to me it would have been easy enough to make it an on/off option in the Admin CP.

Better yet... hidden to guests!

Hey, I've just emailed you.
I actually want to integrate some kind of classified with my forum but I'm still not sure which way to go yet. I consider vbay and SR Classifieds 1.0.5 Lite, I guess I will need to test all of them to see what suits most my needs most. And if you send me Mary's Classifieds I will test it out too. :)

That's going to depend strictly on the style used and if it is fixed or fluid width.

I agree with you
I wish they can make this option in Admin cp.

Surprisingly this feature had only 1 vote in JIRA:
http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBIV-3095

I added mine... anyone else who wants it should add their vote too.

To add a vote click on the number next to "Votes: " and on the next page there is a link to "Add Your Vote."

Feature requests get more attention the more votes they have in JIRA (AKA "The Tracker.")

I will always prefer vb3. The only reason I moved to 4 was because of a plugin that ruined our board. And it never came back to its normal status. Even after we installed backup databases and all. 3 is better looking, more vibrant, and just overall feels better as a community. 4 will take MUCH getting used to.

I upgraded to vB4.2 a few days ago. I still miss vB3 a lot, but this is mostly because vB4 lacks good skins (plenty of excellent skins available for vB3). At first I was appalled by vB4 but now that I've been working on improving functionality and bugs and so on, I'm beginning to like vB4.