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-   -   Forum's Design (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=280863)

Chadi 03-29-2012 06:39 PM
Forum's Design
 
Greetings all,

I never visit the feedback forum, but I'm sure the site's design has been chatted about ample. However, something popped up in my mind that I'm not sure others mentioned before.

This forum's motto "The Official vBulletin Modifications Site." Yet, it has not been upgraded to the official version of the company's forum software for years (yes, years) and the design is antiquated.

My question is, what excuse does the company have? It makes them look rather unprofessional compared to any other forum company out there like Lithium, Xenforo, etc (even open source ones that are not-for-profit).

This actually even concerns me about the future of their quality and even this forum. From a business perspective, there is no legitimate excuse to showcase a version of your forum that is several years old.

I do recall about 4 or so years ago having a discussion regarding the design of this site and all, and I think a mod even mentioned that its not "official" VB company owned site? I find that hard to believe since the license system is linked to them. Maybe its my misunderstanding.

What do you all think?

Thanks in advance.

ForceHSS 03-29-2012 06:41 PM
Why does it need updated it does the job. Why fix something when it is not broken

Chadi 03-29-2012 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceHSS (Post 2314816)
Why does it need updated it does the job. Why fix something when it is not broken
vB's forum has been continually updated, redesigned, improved. It doesn't have to be broken to improve on it, modernize it, make it more "today" and accessible.

Paul M 03-29-2012 08:10 PM
Its perfectly accessible.

vbenhancer 03-29-2012 08:23 PM
see, i accessed it... :)

...ok, that also mean the doors are way too wide open!

Chadi 03-29-2012 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbenhancer (Post 2314841)
see, i accessed it... :)

...ok, that also mean the doors are way too wide open!
Sarcasm not needed.

Accessibility I'm referring to, for example:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/accessibility.php

Also, there is everything else I mentioned that was not addressed. Not that your forced to address them.

Going by the replies already in this thread and other threads in the feedback forum I've read, its clear that customers are not truly appreciated nor their input & feedback welcomed.

Not a pleasant experience here, being a VB user/customer for 8 years now.

vbenhancer 03-29-2012 08:44 PM
actually, the goal of THIS site is not to have a pleasant experience... if you want to test the experience on the software, the only place avail for it is http://vbulletin.com ... if you are not happy THERE, it is time to comment on their official forum... but here?!... nah...

it is ugly, it is crap, i hate its colors, but hey, it is quick

Max Taxable 03-29-2012 09:29 PM
I've seen this canard come up many times. The difference which makes no difference, is no difference.

Paul M 03-29-2012 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2314844)
Going by the replies already in this thread and other threads in the feedback forum I've read, its clear that customers are not truly appreciated nor their input & feedback welcomed.
"Feedback" that is just a general rant has little value. The "company" doesnt need an excuse, since it hasnt done anything wrong, nor does the fact you happen to disagree with the version we run make vb.org unprofessional. The purpose of this site is to provide access to modifications, not to be a vbulletin showcase. If you want a showcase, visit vbulletin.com. :cool:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2314844)
Not a pleasant experience here, being a VB user/customer for 8 years now.
What pain, discomfort or other manner of unpleasantness would that be then ? How has this unpleasantness suddenly come about given that by your own remarks, nothing has changed from how it was last year, or the year before, or the year before that. :erm: I dont quite see what relevance your personal time as a vb customer is to what version of vBulletin we happen to run. :confused:

blind-eddie 03-29-2012 10:54 PM
I am glad this site is not running the current version. If it were, I think that would shorten or even stop my visits here on the org. Can't stand 4.x.x series :down: :down:......I am happy with it just the way it is....

Amaury 03-29-2012 11:10 PM
I've always wondered why it's still on such an old version. Not complaining, though, just curious.

Max Taxable 03-30-2012 12:16 AM
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

There is NO compelling reason to "upgrade" to v4.

Sage Knight 03-30-2012 03:50 AM
Besides, nobody wants a slower site.

setishock 03-30-2012 08:15 AM
I have to agree with the adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" You do know VB3 is still supported. Why not have a forum running VB4 and a forum running VB3?
VB4 at the corporate office and VB3 here at the research labs. Of course we have more fun here.
"Tinker, tinker, damn"
"Tinker, tinker, damn"
"Hey can some one help me with this?"
"Sure. What's the problem?"
"I push this button, pull this lever, and smoke comes out the back."
"Ok this is what you do."
"Tinker, tinker, WOW!!!"

Kinda what happens around here. Why fork all that up...

vbenhancer 03-30-2012 09:59 AM
coffee seti ?!

BirdOPrey5 03-30-2012 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2314813)
Greetings all,

I never visit the feedback forum, but I'm sure the site's design has been chatted about ample. However, something popped up in my mind that I'm not sure others mentioned before.

This forum's motto "The Official vBulletin Modifications Site." Yet, it has not been upgraded to the official version of the company's forum software for years (yes, years) and the design is antiquated.

My question is, what excuse does the company have? It makes them look rather unprofessional compared to any other forum company out there like Lithium, Xenforo, etc (even open source ones that are not-for-profit).

This actually even concerns me about the future of their quality and even this forum. From a business perspective, there is no legitimate excuse to showcase a version of your forum that is several years old.

I do recall about 4 or so years ago having a discussion regarding the design of this site and all, and I think a mod even mentioned that its not "official" VB company owned site? I find that hard to believe since the license system is linked to them. Maybe its my misunderstanding.

What do you all think?

Thanks in advance.
Why doesn't the site in your signature run VB4?

setishock 03-30-2012 03:31 PM
@vbenhancer
No, 24oz MONSTERS. Two at a time.

--------------- Added [DATE]1333128883[/DATE] at [TIME]1333128883[/TIME] ---------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 (Post 2315011)
Why doesn't the site in your signature run VB4?
Touche'

Chadi 03-30-2012 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 (Post 2315011)
Why doesn't the site in your signature run VB4?
I'm a customer, not the company or someone representing the company. So your question is not relevant to my point.

I already have plans to upgrade with a custom made skin, but have been held back for almost a year due to personal matters that hindered my plans.

That's why its not running vb4.

Its interesting how everyone seems to gang up on me when I simply shared "feedback" and asked legitimate questions. And Paul, no I'm not "ranting". Its called feedback.

Pandemikk 03-30-2012 06:42 PM
Greetings All,

I believe the reason .org hasn't upgraded is because the amount of customizing done for this site. Why spend all those hours upgrading the code to vB4 when the community has grown to love .org for how it is now? People often forget that vb.org is not ran by the corporate heads at vbulletin.com. This site is mostly ran by volunteers.

In fact, if vB.org was ever forced to upgrade I'm sure there would be plenty of backlash.

Max Taxable 03-30-2012 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2315155)
I already have plans to upgrade with a custom made skin, but have been held back for almost a year due to personal matters that hindered my plans.

That's why its not running vb4.
I will never, ever, go to v4. Ever.

Pandemikk 03-30-2012 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Taxable (Post 2315161)
I will never, ever, go to v4. Ever.
Don't knock it till you try it. vB4 rocks.

Max Taxable 03-30-2012 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandemikk (Post 2315163)
Don't knock it till you try it. vB4 rocks.
I have tried it, I spend quite a bit of volunteer time helping people with their v4, and it sucks. Hard. I don't know anyone who has it that doesn't wish they could revert.

Is that your site in your sig? Look how slow it is. This is a hallmark of v4:

http://www.webpagetest.org/result/120330_SF_3SJ57/

And it's complete with a couple of 404 errors as well:

http://www.webpagetest.org/result/12...J57/1/details/

Paul M 03-30-2012 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2315155)
I'm a customer, not the company or someone representing the company. So your question is not relevant to my point.
vbulletin.org is not "the company" or representing it. The question is as valid (or invalid) as yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2315155)
Its interesting how everyone seems to gang up on me when I simply shared "feedback" and asked legitimate questions. And Paul, no I'm not "ranting". Its called feedback.
You asked loaded questions, for example "My question is, what excuse does the company have?". As I already told you, "the company" doesnt need an excuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2315155)
And Paul, no I'm not "ranting". Its called feedback.
Symantics. A rant might be feedback, its still a rant.

vbenhancer 03-30-2012 11:01 PM
yeah, we gang up on you... sure, we call this a community... a gang where everybody is on a biased side...

btw, i'm their leader, Paul M is the guy who use the whip...

BirdOPrey5 03-31-2012 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadi (Post 2315155)
I'm a customer, not the company or someone representing the company. So your question is not relevant to my point.

I already have plans to upgrade with a custom made skin, but have been held back for almost a year due to personal matters that hindered my plans.

That's why its not running vb4.

Its interesting how everyone seems to gang up on me when I simply shared "feedback" and asked legitimate questions. And Paul, no I'm not "ranting". Its called feedback.
I am not ganging up, I asked you because I felt your answer my be relevant to our own reasons for not upgrading.

vBulletin.org is run by volunteers and should not be thought of as the official vBulletin website. vBulletin.com is the official site and as such is always running the very latest versions.

blind-eddie 03-31-2012 12:47 AM
Feed back Gone Wild.... always a good read.

nhawk 03-31-2012 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Taxable (Post 2315165)
I have tried it, I spend quite a bit of volunteer time helping people with their v4, and it sucks. Hard. I don't know anyone who has it that doesn't wish they could revert.

Is that your site in your sig? Look how slow it is. This is a hallmark of v4:

http://www.webpagetest.org/result/120330_SF_3SJ57/

And it's complete with a couple of 404 errors as well:

http://www.webpagetest.org/result/12...J57/1/details/
This is WAY off topic, but..

I've seen those tests used as an argument against vB4 before, but you can't use that as a test for vB4. That is a test for individual site performance and has nothing to do with vB4 itself.

If it were a test for vB4, my results would be near the same and they aren't.
http://www.webpagetest.org/result/120330_QW_3SJSF/

Max Taxable 03-31-2012 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2315323)
This is WAY off topic, but..

I've seen those tests used as an argument against vB4 before, but you can't use that as a test for vB4. That is a test for individual site performance and has nothing to do with vB4 itself.

If it were a test for vB4, my results would be near the same and they aren't.
http://www.webpagetest.org/result/120330_QW_3SJSF/
This is after you did ALOT of work to get that type of result.

The other one tested is pretty much out of the box, not alot of work done.

Apples/Oranges and the point is, you HAD to do alot of work on the junk v4 to get decent results.

nhawk 03-31-2012 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Taxable (Post 2315361)
This is after you did ALOT of work to get that type of result.

The other one tested is pretty much out of the box, not alot of work done.

Apples/Oranges and the point is, you HAD to do alot of work on the junk v4 to get decent results.
The only work I did was to properly set up my server. I did no work to vBulletin itself. Upgrades are painless for me because all of the vB code is original and untouched.

EDIT: Except for promotions.php.. that has a stupid line in the query that supposedly saves processor time and I remove it after each upgrade to allow for moving members that haven't completed the email activation to a different usergroup after 30 days.

vbenhancer 03-31-2012 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2315364)
EDIT: Except for promotions.php.. that has a stupid line in the query that supposedly saves processor time and I remove it after each upgrade to allow for moving members that haven't completed the email activation to a different usergroup after 30 days.
actually, there is not a single code that would save processors or server resources... vBulletin is coded to do just that, use the best of the code and features to make server-safe transactions and processes... if you go further in trying to enhance it, you break the process...

so any suggestion to make the code better is just moronish grace... if there is a way to help, vBulletin is upgraded to fix that possibility already... no need to download a hack for that.

nhawk 03-31-2012 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbenhancer (Post 2315461)
actually, there is not a single code that would save processors or server resources... vBulletin is coded to do just that, use the best of the code and features to make server-safe transactions and processes... if you go further in trying to enhance it, you break the process...

so any suggestion to make the code better is just moronish grace... if there is a way to help, vBulletin is upgraded to fix that possibility already... no need to download a hack for that.
I think you misunderstood what I said.

Promotions.php contains this code (note the "save a bit of cpu time.")..
Code:
// $nextrun is the time difference between runs. Should be sent over from cron.php!!
// We only check the users that have been active since the lastrun to save a bit of cpu time.

$thisrun = TIMENOW;
$lastrun = $vbulletin->crondata['promotions_lastrun'] ? $vbulletin->crondata['promotions_lastrun'] : $thisrun - ($nextrun - $thisrun);

$promotions = $vbulletin->db->query_read("
        SELECT user.joindate, user.userid, user.membergroupids, user.posts, user.reputation,
                user.usergroupid, user.displaygroupid, user.customtitle, user.username, user.ipoints,
                userpromotion.joinusergroupid, userpromotion.reputation AS jumpreputation, userpromotion.posts AS jumpposts,
                userpromotion.date AS jumpdate, userpromotion.type, userpromotion.strategy,
                usergroup.title, usergroup.usertitle AS ug_usertitle,
                usertextfield.rank
        FROM " . TABLE_PREFIX . "user AS user
        INNER JOIN " . TABLE_PREFIX . "userpromotion AS userpromotion ON (user.usergroupid = userpromotion.usergroupid)
        LEFT JOIN " . TABLE_PREFIX . "usergroup AS usergroup ON (userpromotion.joinusergroupid = usergroup.usergroupid)
        LEFT JOIN " . TABLE_PREFIX . "usertextfield AS usertextfield ON (usertextfield.userid = user.userid)
        " . iif(VB_AREA != 'AdminCP', "WHERE user.lastactivity >= $lastrun")
);
That code does not allow the promotions system to move users to a different usergroup if they have been inactive in 30 days. The only way to fix that is to remove the .iif at the end of the query.

And FYI, this is confirmed and in the product backlog in JIRA. http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBIV-12929

But we are so far off topic now that I think it's time to stop posting the good/bad of vB 4. :)

Pandemikk 04-01-2012 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Taxable (Post 2315165)
I have tried it, I spend quite a bit of volunteer time helping people with their v4, and it sucks. Hard. I don't know anyone who has it that doesn't wish they could revert.

Is that your site in your sig? Look how slow it is. This is a hallmark of v4:

http://www.webpagetest.org/result/120330_SF_3SJ57/

And it's complete with a couple of 404 errors as well:

http://www.webpagetest.org/result/12...J57/1/details/
It ran faster than it did on vB3. I don't really trust webpagetest, it's said sites take 6 seconds to load and they've loaded in a few seconds in actuality.

RSNF 04-01-2012 12:36 AM
You can rest assure this clown has misunderstood what you said 95% of his posts are misunderstandings..........lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by nhawk (Post 2315465)
I think you misunderstood what I said.

Promotions.php contains this code (note the "save a bit of cpu time.")..
Code:
// $nextrun is the time difference between runs. Should be sent over from cron.php!!
// We only check the users that have been active since the lastrun to save a bit of cpu time.

$thisrun = TIMENOW;
$lastrun = $vbulletin->crondata['promotions_lastrun'] ? $vbulletin->crondata['promotions_lastrun'] : $thisrun - ($nextrun - $thisrun);

$promotions = $vbulletin->db->query_read("
        SELECT user.joindate, user.userid, user.membergroupids, user.posts, user.reputation,
                user.usergroupid, user.displaygroupid, user.customtitle, user.username, user.ipoints,
                userpromotion.joinusergroupid, userpromotion.reputation AS jumpreputation, userpromotion.posts AS jumpposts,
                userpromotion.date AS jumpdate, userpromotion.type, userpromotion.strategy,
                usergroup.title, usergroup.usertitle AS ug_usertitle,
                usertextfield.rank
        FROM " . TABLE_PREFIX . "user AS user
        INNER JOIN " . TABLE_PREFIX . "userpromotion AS userpromotion ON (user.usergroupid = userpromotion.usergroupid)
        LEFT JOIN " . TABLE_PREFIX . "usergroup AS usergroup ON (userpromotion.joinusergroupid = usergroup.usergroupid)
        LEFT JOIN " . TABLE_PREFIX . "usertextfield AS usertextfield ON (usertextfield.userid = user.userid)
        " . iif(VB_AREA != 'AdminCP', "WHERE user.lastactivity >= $lastrun")
);
That code does not allow the promotions system to move users to a different usergroup if they have been inactive in 30 days. The only way to fix that is to remove the .iif at the end of the query.

And FYI, this is confirmed and in the product backlog in JIRA. http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBIV-12929

But we are so far off topic now that I think it's time to stop posting the good/bad of vB 4. :)

vbenhancer 04-01-2012 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSNF (Post 2315570)
You can rest assure this clown has misunderstood what you said 95% of his posts are misunderstandings..........lol
clown ?!... thanks, i was not named a clown for a long time, it remembers me the old days !!


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